Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?

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lachlan:
"Hidden From History: Reclaiming the Gay and Lesbian Past" Edited by Duberman, Vicinus and Chauncey, Penguin Books 1989 (USA) and 1991 (UK). Anthology. In the chapter on Russia's Gay Literature and Culture at the time of the revolution, by Simon Karlinsky, there is mention (pages 349 - 350) of the peasant religious sects in the north of Russia and along the Volga River: "Two of these sects, Khlysty and Skoptsy, had recognisable homosexual, bisexual and sadomasochistic traits in their folklore and rituals." These could possibly have descended from pre-Christian sects, particularly considering that the regions in question were largely Finnic (Mordvin, Cheremis, etc) in their language and culture until recently. But I have heard of other examples in Russia and the Russian communities in Canada from sources that were not condemnatory. In the case of the Bogomils, I have spent much of the past 40 years in their heartland and have been made to understand that the derivation of the word "Bugger" from their customs was justified. Today, the descendents of the Bogomils are primarily nominal Muslims (Pomaks). But my experiences among them (and I have many Pomak friends still today, including one I just received an email from) has involved plenty of drinking and wild parties not associated with typical Muslim society. I have often been told that they are aware of their ancestors' open sexuality and its place within the former Bogomil ritual. The Western condemnation of sexual relations betwen men (women were largely ignored in these injunctions) stems primarily from St Augustine's interpretations of Christianity. His influence didn't reach the Eastern Orthodox hierarchy until much later and then only within those patriarchates which consciously strove to westernise. So, maybe there's some substance in the source of the word "Bugger" from "Bulgar". And (just to go on and on and... ) the people who inhabited the middle Volga region were also known as "Bulgars" (cognative with "Volga") in the Middle Ages.

Shuggy:
Thank you very much, that's very interesting. I have Duberman's "About Time" and I have corresponded with Simon Karlinsky about Tchaikovsky. I put Karlinsky's gay interpretation of Tchaikovsky's 6th (Pathetique/Passionate) sympony published in Christopher Street to the music and it was broadcast on the This Way Out network. In brief, there is an oral tradition passing down to Karlinsky that the secret programme of the symphony is about gay love, the romantic theme in the first movement is for a man, the "struggling" themes in that movement represent homophobia, and the sad final movement is an elegy for various of Tchaikovsky's lovers. The limping "waltz" in 5/4 time and the very un-military march, using the tonic-subdominant interplay instead of the conventional tonic-dominant, can also be interpreted as referring to gay people "marching to a different drummer". 

loneleeb3:
Just saw that this was the focus thread so i started reading it.
Very interesting. I don't know much about the 60's other than what i have read. I was born in 66.
I remember some things. I was born to a poor Un-Wed teenage mother in the rural south. Hell, we were hillbillys and we were outcasts. Young un-married women just didn't get pregnant unless they were white trash you know whats! So, that is how we were precieved n our small town. She was the whore of Babylon and i was her bastard child. But, we escaped when I was 3 so all I know about that is what mamma has told me.
When she started dating the man I would come to call my father, we spent a lot of time on the VA Tech campus.
i can remember the hippies and them telling me to flash a peace signs to the cops. I remember the moon landing on our old black and white tv in 69.
As far as the homosexuality thing goes, I didn't know anything about that until the late 70's.
I knew I was different from the time I was about 4 or 5.
I remember my mom had the village people album when I was about 10 or 11. I fell in love with the hairy chested leather guy. When I was in the 6th grade is when i first heard the word fag. I had no idea what it meant. Some dumb red-neck called me that and everyone laughed. When I found out I was mortified. How could anyone have known. Well, now that I knew there was a word for it and it was a bad word i knew I didn't want to be that.
Thus began the construction of the closet. As thears progressed and AIDS was all over the place I really didn't want to begay. Being raised in Church I learned that AIDS was the reaping of what the "Homa Sexshuls" have sown!
It's still like that here. In Atlanta there is Mid-town, Virginia-Highlands, Buckhead, Grant Park and Ansley Park. These are all places within the city that gay people are known to live and frequent. But, outside the city in Suburbia there is no place. Once you get outside the city and the further out you go it's like going back in time in regards to attitudes about homosexuality. It's hard all over i'm sure but here in the buckle of the bible belt it can be overwhelming.

Shuggy:

--- Quote from: loneleeb3 on April 26, 2007, 10:56:49 am ---I remember the moon landing on our old black and white tv in 69.

--- End quote ---
So did you get a colour TV after that?  :laugh:

Seriously, though, sad story. Hope it's worked out OK.

moremojo:

--- Quote from: Shuggy on March 03, 2007, 07:39:00 pm ---The Penguin script of the show says "bloomin' arse" but I was told that she said "bloody" on stage. In the song "Without you" she definitely winds up "So go back in your shell, I can do bloody well without you". Julie Andrews sings it on the record. "Bloomin' well" wouldn't cut across the footlights nearly so well.
--- End quote ---
In the film adaptation, in the Ascot scene, Audrey Hepburn as Eliza cries out "Move your bloomin' arse!" Seems like it would have been a little shocking for 1964.

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