Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Dealing With the Brokeback Non-Believers
bbm_stitchbuffyfan:
I sometimes cannot stand the Non-Believers... I mean, I don't want everybody praising this movie because it would become everyone's movie as opposed to our's (Brokies, I mean). When it's people I'm with in person, they're not as hard on the ears as a lot of people on IMDB. All of my friends who have seen the film thought it was dull as all hell and "didn't live up to the hype." I just can't get past some people's wildly indifferent or even negative views on this movie...
opinionista:
--- Quote from: Phillip on February 28, 2006, 10:41:45 am ---I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day about Brokeback Mountain. He's gay and in a relationship with someone for several years now. When I broached the issue of BBM with him and told him about my efforts here on BetterMost, I was stunned to hear his reaction to the movie. He thought it was terrible. He didn't actually go and see it in a theater, he saw it from one of those copies that suddenly and mysteriously appeared on his computer. I was floored to hear things like:
- the movie continued the stereotype that gay men can't maintain relationships;
- it had two gay guys that refused to settle down with each other;
- it was depressing and an overall negative for the gay community;
- it showed gay people living lies and hurting women and children.
AIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DID WE SEE THE SAME MOVIE???!!!
I was really surprised to hear this kind of stuff and I could feel my temperature rising as I was listening to it. My immediate reaction was to begin an all out defense and debate concerning what planet he flew to to get these kinds of reactions. Normally movies for me are not deeply personal things - I despise Adam Sandler for example, but when I tell an Adam Sandler fan most of his films are always the same thing over and over, they don't flip out. I liked Pleasantville quite a bit (except for the bang bang over the head with the way too obvious use of the metaphor gun) but if someone told me it was awful, I would shrug my shoulders and move on. But when it comes to BBM, hearing people trash it evokes a reaction inside me as if someone was out to beat and bash Jack and Ennis and defenses go on maximum.
I was truly, surprisingly, offended to hear these remarks. After a few minutes of debate I realized my friend just didn't get it. And he should because he's a lot like Ennis in many ways, and just as stubborn. Over the years, we've had issues that led me to put him on my "list" of people I need a break from because he was driving me nuts. But I'm loyal to friends so it's not like I am telling him "never call again."
Obviously, he was factually wrong about the characters anyway - Ennis always remained true to Jack as his one male partner, although Jack did drift but only out of frustration with Ennis. He was wrong about the characters being stereotypical for not committing to the relationship -- a lot of younger gay guys won't commit because they want to explore around and they are not ready to settle down. In BBM's case, it was Ennis' fear alone which kept them apart. It -was- a depressing film because it showed the extension of what bigotry, fear, and hatred can do to honest love. I saw this as an overall plus for the gay community, especially in showing the power of true love and the consequences for everybody when negative forces interfere. That was exactly what led Jack and Ennis to marry women in the first place - because it was expected. I would never condone someone marrying someone just to prove they can fit in; it's cruel to the person you marry and to yourself. But my perspective is colored by the fact I am much younger than the characters on screen, and I have the luxury of speaking on this contemporaneously.
But there is a real problem for us BBM evangelists out there when we confront the non-believers. We cannot threaten them with eternal damnation, but perhaps we should taunt them ruthlessly for preferring Final Destination 3. :P
--- End quote ---
I have several friends and acquaintances, both gay and straight, who didn't like Brokeback Mountain. And like you, I got mad at them, and tried to convice them otherwise. You would not believe their reasons, some were even silly. Then on my 5th or 6th viewing at the theater this guy who was sitting next to me started to cry loud and uncontrolably just when the movie ended. I, along with two other people tried to confort him. He was really upset. He kept saying he hated the movie, but he kept crying. And that's when it hit me. That's when I finally understood why some poeple dislike BBM, because it's too real. It deals with topics not everybody is comfortable with. The story makes some people realize mistakes they have made in the past; it makes them remember painful experiences they didn't want to remember; it makes them feel guilty for past behaviors and so on. So, now everytime I hear someone say they didn't like the movie, I stop and think before reacting because I don't know what chord the movie touched on that person. Brokeback Mountain is a tough movie and not everybody can deal with it.
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: opinionista on May 24, 2006, 01:50:29 pm ---I have several friends and acquaintances, both gay and straight, who didn't like Brokeback Mountain. And like you, I got mad at them, and tried to convice them otherwise. You would not believe their reasons, some were even silly. Then on my 5th or 6th viewing at the theater this guy who was sitting next to me started to cry loud and uncontrolably just when the movie ended. I, along with two other people tried to confort him. He was really upset. He kept saying he hated the movie, but he kept crying. And that's when it hit me. That's when I finally understood why some poeple dislike BBM, because it's too real. It deals with topics not everybody is comfortable with. The story makes some people realize mistakes they have made in the past; it makes them remember painful experiences they didn't want to remember; it makes them feel guilty for past behaviors and so on. So, now everytime I hear someone say they didn't like the movie, I stop and think before reacting because I don't know what chord the movie touched on that person. Brokeback Mountain is a tough movie and not everybody can deal with it.
--- End quote ---
Excellent point. I was just thinking about this last night (go figure! ;)). It came to me after I turned off "The Door in the Floor," which a co-worker to whom I had highly recommended Brokeback (and who didn't really like it all that much) had recommended highly to me. I turned it off because after a promising start in which Kim Basinger's character was shown non-verbally experiencing serious clinical depression in a manner that struck a chord in me, once they all started talking, not a word of it rang true. Whoever wrote the dialog DOES NOT GET HOW PEOPLE REALLY TALK. It just bugged the crap outta me. Then I remembered how this same co-worker later saw "Crash" after having seen BBM and *raved* about how great it was, how it totally deserved the Oscar, blah, blah, blah. And this thought struck me: She must not like anything that's too real. Some people, I guess, like movies that are contrived because it takes them completely out of their own life situations and plunks them somewhere else for a couple of hours - it's just pure escapism to them - like an extended and relatively pleasant acid trip. Then they sober up, walk out, and get on with their lives, not giving what they've seen another thought. That's entertainment to them.
I think they must actually see the whole point of movies as being completely different from how we here see it.
In order for me to thoroughly enjoy a movie, I have to believe those characters are *real*. Every word they say has to sound like exactly what someone in that real-life situation would say. Everything they do has to be likewise. Otherwise, I don't care about them and it falls flat. As soon as the characters opened their mouths in this movie last night, I stopped believing them. Every one of them. And it was over. Similarly, I have to connect with those characters in some way that comes from my own experience. Even if it's an unlikable character, if he shows me some vulnerability - some questioning of whether he believes the things he says and does are really right, I can connect. But a character can be written to be the most likable and vulnerable person in the world, and if what they say doesn't ring true, I can't connect.
To me, what movies are supposed to accomplish and what they do accmomplish when they truly are works of art is this: They show me an undeniable truth about myself - about the human condition and my experience in it.
I have no problem with pure escapism - I love a great comedy or a well-done shoot-em-up as much as the next guy. But when a movie preens itself to be great drama and then presents characters who would never say and do in a million years the things they say and do, it's failed. Utterly.
opinionista:
--- Quote ---And this thought struck me: She must not like anything that's too real. Some people, I guess, like movies that are contrived because it takes them completely out of their own life situations and plunks them somewhere else for a couple of hours - it's just pure escapism to them - like an extended and relatively pleasant acid trip.
--- End quote ---
That's true. A lot of peope do that. They go to movies to get away from whatever is bothering them. I do it sometimes, especially now that I'm trying to finish my dissertation. I get so stress out sometimes that I just go to the movies to disconnect. There's a theater just around the corner from where I live, which coincidentally is still showing Brokeback Mountain!!! At limited times though, just fridays and saturdays after midnight. (Went to see it last Friday but today I rented a DVD). All I have to do is go down the elevator, walk a few step up the sidewalk and I'm there.
I like to see tought provoking, well acted, well written and well done movies. Fortunateluy that theater I just told you about usually shows good movies. I saw Volver the other day, Almodovar's new flick, and also Transamerica, which I loved. Great movie, very well acted by Felicity Huffman.
David:
--- Quote from: opinionista on May 24, 2006, 01:50:29 pm ---that's when it hit me. That's when I finally understood why some poeple dislike BBM, because it's too real. It deals with topics not everybody is comfortable with. The story makes some people realize mistakes they have made in the past; it makes them remember painful experiences they didn't want to remember; it makes them feel guilty for past behaviors and so on.
--- End quote ---
Oddly enough, I bought the book after my first viewing. After my second viewing I was so upset and disturbed I threw the book away ( I was crying too much from reading it ) and after my third viewing I was such a wreck I wish I had never heard of Brokeback Mountain.
Things got worse before they got better. But now I am happy about BBM. It has changed my world. I have met so many good people thru it.
I can understand why some people don't "get it". They haven't embraced the movie yet.
The ones that bother me are the "I wont watch it because it was over hyped" types.
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