A question about the Final Argument scene

[Front-Ranger]

That is so true, friend Buffy. Jack is stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place, the rock being Ennis, and the hard place being life without Ennis. He opts for staying stuck, and that's what a lot of us do, and who can blame him, or us?

[Meryl]

This all goes back to my firm belief that this story ultimately is a critique of a homophobic society, and not a story about personal choices. Jack and Ennis both make the choices they do because of their backgrounds and the environment they grew up and lived in. They never stood a chance, and perhaps this is what Jack with time came to realise. If we interpret that heartwrecking sad and lost look he gives Ennis truck as Ennis drives away after the final argument, as Jack having lost his hope, I think we should think of it as society finally managing to rob Jack of what has been such a big part of his character; his ability to dream. And somehow fittingly tragic, shortly after, Jack's physical form also dies.

Beautifully said, Monika. 

[mariez]

I'm glad this thread got bumped - I hadn't seen it before!

I felt like they loved each other so much that the frustration overwhelmed them.

I completely agree with this - that's precisely what this scene said to me.  They wouldn't be human if they both weren't frustrated with the situation.  This was an argument that had to happen sooner or later - how could it not? 

This all goes back to my firm belief that this story ultimately is a critique of a homophobic society, and not a story about personal choices. Jack and Ennis both make the choices they do because of their backgrounds and the environment they grew up and lived in.

Yes.  Exactly.  Jack and Ennis are both the protagonists in the story - the antagonist is destructive rural homphobia.  And that's why it seems clear to me that AP never stands in judgment of Jack and Ennis and their "choices."

I think that indicates that he deep down understands and shares many of Ennis's fears.

Yeah, and I think "deep down" is an important part of this statement.  On a more superficial level, neither one of them liked to think too hard about the other one's life while they were apart - so part of the resentment and bitterness they are both feeling here stems from that superficial level where each of them thinks that maybe the other has it "easier" somehow.  Ennis sees Jack as a man who, despite being able to "phone in" his marriage" - still has a wife and a son at home, is able to take time off whenever he wants and is wearing fancy, warm clothes and driving a brand new truck (I always thought it was genius on the part of someone - wardrobe?  Ang Lee himself?  to have Ennis wearing the same corduroy jacket he was wearing way back in their 1967 reunion camping trip.  I wonder if Jack noticed that?)  And Jack sees Ennis as a guy who is "free" of his wife and children, and able to openly date that waitress (without having to sneak around way out in the middle of nowhere).  But, again, it's too painful for either one of them to envision the lives they have apart from each other, so, sadly, the fears and understandings they have in common don't come to the surface - only the bitterness and resentment does. 

AP really set the story up brilliantly, didn't she? 

[Monika]

Yes.  Exactly.  Jack and Ennis are both the protagonists in the story - the antagonist is destructive rural homphobia.  And that's why it seems clear to me that AP never stands in judgment of Jack and Ennis and their "choices."

Very well put, Mariez. And I agree.
No, AP never stands in judgement of Jack and Ennis. On the contrary, she makes us feel as though the decisions they made for themselves were more or less inevitable, direct consequences of their upbringing and the trauma of being gay in that environment. Society forced them to live their lives the way they did.

[Front-Ranger]

Very well put, Mariez. And I agree.
No, AP never stands in judgement of Jack and Ennis. On the contrary, she makes us feel as though the decisions they made for themselves were more or less inevitable, direct consequences of their upbringing and the trauma of being gay in that environment. Society forced them to live their lives the way they did.

Absolutely.