Author Topic: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?  (Read 42268 times)

Scott6373

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 02:36:30 pm »
It's an unnecessary procedure, and therefore, anyone who cannot weigh the pros and cons of it on their own should not be forced into having it done.  I know that parents do this as a matter of course, and for what they are lead to believe are very good reasons, but to me it seems cruel.  Odd thing is...I don't prefer uncircumcised men...go figure.

Scott6373

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 02:54:43 pm »
And there is some discrimination too.   I know some cut guys who won't have sex with an uncut guy.
For some it is just a preference.   

Just how is this discrimination?  I've never heard of equal opportinity sexual activity, and if it did exist, I would be celibate.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 03:06:20 pm »
I have talked to some friends about it.    Some circumcized guys expressed jealousy of uncut guys because they say being cut reduces their sensativity during sex.

This is what I commonly hear, or read, in gay male sources as the chief argument against circumcision 

Quote
And there is some discrimination too.   I know some cut guys who won't have sex with an uncut guy.
For some it is just a preference.   

Just how is this discrimination?  I've never heard of equal opportinity sexual activity, and if it did exist, I would be celibate.

I think I see your point, but when you hear, "Eeeew, he's uncut!" it sounds to me more like discrimination than just a preference.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Scott6373

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 03:09:52 pm »
LOL,  true, but there is a difference between "preference" and "Discrimination".

I've heard some guys say they would never date an uncut guy because they heard it was unsanitary.  Which is different than say a visual preference.

But...my preference was born from less than pleasant personal experience.  It's not like this type of activity is something you can "give another shot".  I mean...if I did that...holy crap.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2007, 03:17:19 pm »
It's interesting that people are pooh-poohing the importance of boys looking like their fathers, when what brought us all here in the first place is a movie based on a story about guy who, as a kid, found out he didn't look like his father and was traumatized by the discovery.

I'm just finding this interesting and coincidental, not using it as an argument one way or another about circumcision. I don't know that having matching penises would be a big deal, myself. Boys don't look like their fathers in all kinds of ways.

But Annie Proulx, having undoubtedly heard the standard justification, must have thought it made enough sense to put it in the story. Of course, she's a woman.




Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2007, 03:22:56 pm »
But...my preference was born from less than pleasant personal experience.  It's not like this type of activity is something you can "give another shot".  I mean...if I did that...holy crap.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but the foreskin can be restored through plastic surgery.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2007, 03:24:44 pm »
I read Katherine's links, which I found to be very good, especially the first one.

I personally am against Circumcision. But I didn't vote yet, since I find the wording of "barbaric and inhumane" too strong (guess I'll probably take this option still).
And I live in a society, were C. is pretty unusual. In Germany, Jewish and Muslim boys undergo C., and there are medical reasons for it (phimosis, but even this is in discussion) and that's it. I've seen only one circumcised man in my life.


Some arguments which were brought up:

1) C. lessens the risk of HIV infections: first, there is not much statistic material yet. For example, many people believe that C. prevents women of circumcised men from cervix cancer. This theory was proven by a study in the 1950ies - but no study ever managed to repeat the results of this study. That study has compared Jewish women to women married to uncircumcised men. Today's scientific assumption is that the lifestyle of the Jewish men and women was simply different (less sexual partners overall).
(Additional note: I've read this on German medical info pages, I don't have any English sources for it. You can either believe it, or look it up yourself, or decide to not believe it)

Even if C. lessens the risk for HIV to a good deal (most sources speak of 60%), it is not a safe method for preventing HIV infection by any means. Additional protection is needed (condoms). Therefore, mass C. could backfire by the way of less cautious behaviour. The negative effects of less cautious sexual behaviour could outdo the positive effects of mass C.
The countries mass C. is recommended for, are among the poorest with bad medical standards. Therefore the medical risks of C. would be much higher than they are in more developed countries. Thus the positive effects for general health of a society could be outdone by infections directly caused by C.

2) Health benefits apart from the relatively new HIV protection discussion: I personally agree with the American Academy of Pediatrics:
Quote from the article in Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2124770/, K's link)
Quote
According to the latest policy statement on circumcision by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the potential medical benefits of snipping aren't great enough to recommend it routinely.

3) Sons should not look different from their father: Why?
To be honest, this argument astonishes me the most. It would never have come to my mind if my husband were circumcised (again: I live in a society where C. is very unusual, so maybe the thought would have occurred to me if I were American).
Little boys do look different from their fathers anyway (and daughters from their mothers). The genitalia of children look different from the ones of adults.
And children look different from their parents in so many ways: blonde hair/dark hair; blue eyes/brown eyes; you name it. So what is the reason boys should not look different from their fathers regarding C.?


Additionally, I read that most C. on newborns in the US are still done without anesthesia (55%, according to wikipedia). I think this is cruel.

Apart from all (more or less) scientific arguments, my feeling is that the foreskin is there for a reason. I don't think half of mankind is born defective (the above mentioned article voices the same thought).
You don't mess with your child's physical inviolability unless you have to. I personally would also not get earpiercings done for a small child.


I see K's last post in the preview: the thought of Jack and OMT came also to my mind  ;D

Scott6373

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2007, 03:29:38 pm »
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but the foreskin can be restored through plastic surgery.

Ok...bluntly put...I've enjoyed (sort of) the company of men who were not circumcized.  I found the experience less than fullfilling, for mostly hygenic reasons.  Now I can't go out and "try them again"...unless I want an even worse rep than the one I have.

Offline Pipedream

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2007, 03:31:11 pm »
I'm very much with Chrissi here.

As far as I know, little German boys are usually only circumsized for medical reasons, i.e. as a treatment for phimosis. Nobody in my family had a circumcision, and I only know of two or three men among my friends who actually had one. Since my hometown had an U.S. Army garrison for decades, many girls (or guys) probably learned that there was such a thing as circumcision for the first time through their GI boyfriends... 

 :)
 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: How Do You Feel About Circumcision?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2007, 03:39:12 pm »
Ok...bluntly put...I've enjoyed (sort of) the company of men who were not circumcized.  I found the experience less than fullfilling, for mostly hygenic reasons.  Now I can't go out and "try them again"...unless I want an even worse rep than the one I have.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about having it "put back"!  :laugh:

(I've found the experience "less than fulfilling," too.)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.