Author Topic: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!  (Read 19281 times)

Offline Kd5000

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2006, 12:52:22 pm »
Maybe she found his initial shyness, "what are you waiting for cowboy, a mating call" a novelty.  He's so sweet for a cowboy, isn't an "animal" at all. 

The only time they are shown being intimidate is when she is taking off her clothes faster then he is in the back seat.  Jack is just going along for the "ride."  It's hard to turn "money" down when it's being handed to you and you have nuthin, made $2,000 in a year, nearly starved, paraphrasing Mr. Twist. 

However in this social scenario at the dance, she has to revert back to more traditional roles, waiting for her husband to invite her to dance.  Looks tacky in front of Randall and his wife for Lureen to say "get up Cowboy, let go dancing."

Why didn't you think she ever asked for a divorce ??? I mean in the early 1980's, it was more socially acceptable to get divorced then say the early 1960's.   What was she getting out of the relationship?  Was Jack playing MR MOM and jr business partner as salesman? It seems that way.. The only inconvenience was when he took off for a weeks to go away to the Big Horns with his hunting/fishin buddy and she kept him on a short leash as well, wanted him back in a week or say to do the combo ag sales.   

I wonder how many "friends" Jack had that he kept in his head.  Was she that detached from his life that she never wanted to meet them.  Certainly, she knew Randall.  :)  Of course, I presume Lureen might have thought her husband suffered from impotency after the intial "honeymoon" and just accepted it. Don't know how common it was back then for women to suspect that "I think he might be gay" thing. It seems much more so nowadays, not as farfetched as it was back then.   

Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2006, 01:02:58 pm »
I can see Lureen not asking for a divorce (and that's only as far as we know) for a few reasons:

1. To have a husband who is kind to you, takes care of your son so you can work, takes you out now and again and helps you entertain at home, doesn't give you any headaches other than losing a parka here or there or disappearing for a week or two at a time a couple times a year, not to mention handsome and charming, would be a blessing to many women, in spite of the lack of interest in having sex regularly with you.

2.  She didn't want to look like a failure in her social circle.  Divorce still wasn't all that common in the early 80s, though it was starting to be.

3.  She loved him.  And being with the man she loved even though she suspected or knew he didn't love her back was better to her than being alone.
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Offline YaadPyar

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2006, 01:20:46 pm »
Great thread Ray - thanks for getting it started.  I'm not sure I understand all the hostility toward Lureen.  She is not someone who tried to rope a gay man into an unsatisfactory marriage, and then kept him twisting away there for her own amusement.  And maybe her daddy had money, but she and her family were just a product of their world and times like Alma and Ennis and Jack.

Why is Lureen a villian?  I can only see her as hardened and disappointed.  When she is young, she is exhuberant, full of all the promise of being brought up indulged and certain that you're a princess.  And when reality hits, she seems to makes the best of what she can.  Her daddy hates Jack, but she sticks with him.  Nothing in the movie indicates that she chose Jack to teach her Dad a lesson; she and Daddy seem farily devoted to each other.  But she stays with him, even as the reality of all he'll never be unfolds in their relationship.  Jack himself never speaks ill of her or complains.  He's just sort of detached about who she becomes, which he's had a huge part in creating.

I can't really buy that she's a 'slut', which seems always a word that's used as a weapon against women.  I think she's just used to indulging her pleasures as she wishes, without considering the potential consequences.  She and Jack are young, and lots of young folks (and not so young) fall into that trap all the time.

Neither Alma nor Lureen are deeply insightful women, and they bring very typical and traditional expectations to marriage.  And it's as it should be, or they would never be able to sustain relationships with men who are so deeply ambivalent about their marriages.  If I had seen my husband kiss another (especially a man), I could not leave it be to some place of painful silence.  Another kind of woman wouldn't be able to survive in such a marriage, and indeed, even Alma can't.

But I don't see how any of that makes Lureen a villian.  Jack was an equal part of their marriage, and Ennis part of his.  We don't get to make one of the characters a villian and another a hero here, and I think that's what Annie Proulx did so beautifully in this story - show us that Brokeback Mountain broke EVERYONE.  That Jack and Ennis couldn't find a way to be together is tragic.  But it wasn't Alma or Lureen who kept that from happening.  It was fear.  That's the tragedy...what fear destroys, not what Lureen Newsome did to Jack, but what fear did to Ennis before Jack ever met her...

"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline Lumière

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2006, 01:21:15 pm »
Re: Lureen divorcing Jack:

There are 2 people who would've been more interested in the divorce than Lureen: Jack and LD Newsome.
Lureen was a Southern woman who would've cared alot about keeping up appearances in her social circles.
I mean, being married to Jack was probably not that bad, inspite of his fishing trips with his best buddy, his drinking and his little interest in sex with her.. :-\.  That said, I think that even if Lureen knew about Jack's 'escapades', she probably went along with it because he didn't rub it in her face and never asked her for a divorce or left her for that matter.
Ennis' call on that fateful day was what took the wool out of her eyes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 05:17:45 pm by Lucise »


Offline Meryl

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2006, 01:29:31 pm »
Great discussion, Ray, and Celeste, I agree with your many well-made points.

I think above all that Jack and Lureen were good friends.  They made a life together, worked together and supported each other.  Maybe passion wasn't in it, but there was real regard and loyalty there nonetheless.

No one so far has addressed the Accident/Murder question.  If it was murder, it was possible Lureen already knew about Jack's homosexuality, since it might have come out that it was a gay bashing.  Perhaps she hadn't yet put two and two together about the fishin' buddy until Ennis mentioned Brokeback, though.  What I love about this scene is how many different interpretations it can take and still make sense.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2006, 01:43:27 pm »
I'm not sure I agree that Jack was indifferent to Lureen. He seems to show her affection. I think of the Thanksgiving scene. He backs her up when she tells Bobby to eat his dinner. He certainly didn't have to. He touches her on the shoulder as he walks by. Jack is certainly invested in his family as shown by his concern for Bobby's educational needs. He seemed bitter when he talks about Lureen and her adding machines and when he said "as far as our marriage is concerned, we could do it over the phone." It seems like Lureen checked out before Jack did. In the film, Jack certainly gave her more affection than she did to him.

That's not to say that she didn't know what was up with Jack. While he did show affection, it may not have been enough, or it certainly wasn't the right kind of attention.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2006, 01:43:48 pm »
I would be inclined to think that the hostility toward Lureen goes back to the original Annie Proulx story--I think she comes off worse there than in the film--except that I also have the feeling that many people who have never read the story and have only seen the film dislike her intensely. Ultimately I can't really account for it.

It's heartbreaking to watch Lureen change--I'm tempted to say deteriorate--from the natural, exuberant young girl of the day she meets Jack to the overly made-up woman of the phone conversation with Ennis. To me she looks an absolute fright at that charity dinner-dance.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2006, 02:00:57 pm »
kept him twisting away there

Ha ha -- good one, Celeste!

IMO, Lureen is not cold, calculating or manipulative. She saw Jack, understandably found him attractive, and went for it. That's what people are SUPPOSED to do, right? She may come on a little strong -- as does Cassie, later; neither of these women would have snared their cowboys any other way -- but that's OK. And she probably was rebelling a bit against her overbearing Daddy (evidence: first-date sex in the backseat of his car and, later, her smirk when Jack tells LD off on Thanksgiving). And she quite possibly was pregnant before the wedding. But none of those actions are particularly evil.

Jack, for his part, did not have an eye for Lureen. He grabbed her hat from the ground just to be polite (hmmm -- an echo of the times Ennis knocks Jack's hat off?), and probably would have ignored her forever if she hadn't made the first move. But she does, and he goes along with it much the same way Ennis later goes along with Cassie. Also,  I think for Jack "money's a good point" -- the fact that Lureen's rich, while he's "nearly starving," is part of her allure. And he's probably sick of getting rejected by the Jimbos of the world. So eventually he just shrugs and decides he might as well get married, possibly with the further incentive of a pregnancy.

You know, I just noticed that her name is Lureen -- get it? She lures him. (Is there a parallel meaning for Cassie? She casts her line for Ennis? Well, maybe that's reaching.)

Anyway, Lureen and Jack have a good relationship platonically (better than Ennis' and Alma's, for sure). But over the years Lureen notices things. Jack is not the most passionate husband. He constantly goes off on fishing trips with his friend, for which he's willing to unilaterally drive 14 hours. He doesn't understand why women would get gussied up "just to go to bed" (nothin going on there!). She gets increasingly frustrated, keeps dying her hair blonder and blonder, as women in those days were commonly advised to do when their marriages were losing their zing. Eventually, Lureen puts 2 and 2 together. Maybe she doesn't quite get to 4, but let's say she's at 3 by the time of the dance. Her dancing comment may be a reference to Jack's sexuality, but if so it's a half-conscious one. She doesn't divorce him because she loves Jack, frustrated though she is.

Then the phone call from Ennis. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Jack is murdered. By then she's at 4 -- she knows about his sexuality outright, either simply because of the murder or because it has become obvious in some other way to both the murderers and Lureen. That's why she sounds so rehearsed when describing the accident. Then, when Ennis confirms that Brokeback is a real place and mentions them herding together 20 years earlier, Lureen squeaks because by now she understands the nature of their relationship and realizes that Jack has been with Ennis since long before their marriage. Maybe to her, Brokeback stands for Jack's fantasy life, and Ennis' saying that Brokeback is a real place opens her eyes -- in other words, he really DID have relationships with other men. Ennis's final "we was good friends," another confirmation, causes another squeak and tears to well in her eyes.

And yet, despite all that, she advises Ennis to get in touch with Jack's folks. And says they'd like it if his wishes was granted -- "bout the ashes, I mean" (as opposed to his wishes about how he wanted to live his life). That was out-and-out kind of her, both knowingly (helping Ennis grieve) and unwittingly (leading Ennis to the shirts).











Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2006, 02:05:42 pm »
I agree, Katherine.  I think her suggesting to Ennis that he get in touch with Jack's folks is not only out-and-out kind of her, but proof that she loved Jack deeply.  And I think that they did both love each other, albeit platonically.  Certainly moreso than Ennis and Alma ever did.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2006, 02:15:58 pm »
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention in Lureen's favor: for a wife who's frustrated and suspicious, she certainly keeps Jack on a pretty long leash!