Author Topic: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris  (Read 45786 times)

moremojo

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2008, 01:08:13 pm »
If they were only interested in making money, where are the marketing tie-ins?
Money and profit were clearly not the only motivations behind the creation of either the short story or the film. Proulx and the filmmakers were also interested in creating a work of art (with the added desire, certainly, to earn income from their efforts), and it is out of fear of tarnishing the completed works of art that they decline to add to or further exploit the story. Lee and Schamus won't even include the deleted scenes in the DVD versions of the film, an otherwise typical strategy in DVD production and marketing.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2008, 01:42:15 pm »
Moremojo thanks and thanks to others too!!

Replying to you moremojo, since you say that Annie and the film-makers decline to add to or further exploit the story, of course that is so, but does not need to be, I say as I think that it can still be bettered!!

When I create a painting on canvas, I continue most times so that it becomes a work of art, really!! I usually refrain to tackle again those compositions which are great as museum pieces... to add to each, but some (rarely) I do, or could!

When a composition is good or great, but I consider it still can go further, I restarted or keep on that one, and sometime succeed much better, some becoming master pieces there too!!

Shakespeare, Tolstoi, hugo... and many more, continued their story or stories.

Anything can be made better, even a masterpiece! Con artist or copy-makers copying Renoir and others made better, at times since they dared!!

Annie could enlarge her BM story, right?? The filmakers too, right?? We, gay men and others) need more in the BM story!! Instead of anti-gay, more pro-gay!! ??

Hugs!!

Scott6373

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2008, 01:55:19 pm »
This is what I've always thought it meant, too, Clyde.  I abhor stereotypes, and I've never met one person yet who adequtely fulfills a stereotype.  People should be viewed as the individuals they are, no matter what their sexuality is. 

If there are gay men out there that feel they can't come out because they don't identify with the boys on Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, then one shouldn't blame a segmant of the gay communtiy for projecting that image of gay men and ignoring all other examples.  It is pop culture that is constantly giving us this flat, two-dimensional portrait of gay men, not gay men themselves, or a portion thereof. 


Gary   

Jeeze...it only took almost two years for someone else to say that!!!  Thanks Gary!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2008, 07:29:33 pm »
On the other hand, every one is stereotyped, right??

Even each person stereotypes daily himself or herself??  Right??


Why?? Does it help always or sometimes, or never??

Hugs, hugs!!

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2008, 09:52:08 pm »
Thanks for that summary, Brokeplex.

The problem I, personally, have with the idea that "the story" of Brokeback Mountain--whether "the story" of the short story or "the story" of the film--is not universal is that I see themes in both the story and the film of opportunities missed, chances not taken out of fear--as not distinctively gay themes. They are human themes.

As for Annie Proulx killing off Jack, I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice that "Brokeback Mountain" can be seen as falling into the old stereotype that if you're gay, you either wind up dead (Jack) or alone and miserable (Ennis). I noticed that as far back as 1997, and it always makes me uncomfortable to think about that.

But as for why Annie killed off Jack, well, a story has to have an end. And I would disagree that Ennis's "emotional and erotic isolation ... is complete" when he still has Jack coming up from Texas once or twice a year. The film gives us a crack in the emotional isolation as he agrees to attend his daughter's wedding. We don't see this in the short story, and I don't see Ennis in the story as having that isolation "complete" until Jack is dead.
 

I'm sorry, but, hunh?  ??? I hope he clarifies that point because I sure don't see how depicting "the deleterious efects of violent homophobia" makes the story an "anti-gay polemic."  ???

I too feel the story and even more so the movie is anti gay. The screen play was "Hollywooded up" with more hetero relationship garbage to make the movie more saleable to the masses.  Its a shame how much the movie pulled away from showing more closeness kissing holding etc. between the two men in the later years, What was shown was very highly edited not to show to much "gayness", and thats a shame.

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2008, 11:18:24 pm »
  Using the same kind of logic that’s being used to say BBM is an anti-gay polemic, we could mount an equally cogent argument that ‘Romeo and Juliet’ is actually a cautionary tale for teenagers illustrating the dangers of fraternizing with your family’s enemies.  After all they both wind up dead in the end.  I think that argument would be just as perverse and preposterous.

   It’s true that Annie proulx’s story looks like it belongs to the forbidden love genre.  The intent of that genre of course is to caution people from straying beyond society’s boundaries.  To stay within and uphold social mores.  At the end the audience looks at each other and thinks, “See what happens when you do that?  See how it winds up?”

   I didn’t hear the audience say that at the end of BBM.  What I heard were things like: “Why did Jack have to die?”  “Why couldn’t they have had their happy life?”  “Why did it have to turn out like that.”  Statements that indicated the audience would rather see the old mores abolished and new mores established more favorable to Jack and Ennis.

   What Annie Proulx has done is use the formula of the forbidden love story, but Jack’s death doesn’t prove society right.  Jack dies so that Ennis will finally realize that he loves Jack.  She has used the forbidden love format to write a traditional tragic romance.

     All artful literature can be interpreted in more than one way.  If it’s well written, it’s like real life where the meanings aren’t all spelled out.  I think the majority opinion of BBM is that it is a tragic romance illustrating the destructive effects of rural homophobia.  It can be interpreted other ways, but I believe the majority opinion is correct.  Just like the majority opinion is correct for ‘Romeo and Juliet.’

Offline Artiste

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2008, 11:47:21 pm »
Thanks Clyde-B!

You say: It’s true that Annie Proulx’s story looks like it belongs to the forbidden love genre. 
...


Clyde and others: May I reply that Annie could have had at least one (either Jack or Ennis) not marry a female?? I wish!! But no, the story and/or BM movie slides only like Romeo and Juliet,  a cheap trill I say!! - is that such hetero-lizing... even gays as well as straights, bi-s or others?? The issue does not focuse on homosexuals... as a main concern about gays?? Or even about about advancing society in order to get it more and more civilized regarding gay life or lives?? In many ways, the film is anti-gay!!

What long term solution, if any, since always gays get to be murdered because they are gays!! That is not news, just copycatting, I say!!

Awaiting your news and hopes,

hugs!! May gays be safe!!

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2008, 01:28:11 am »
In the begining the movie appears to break new ground until the last 1/2 hour then it starts looking like a stereotypical gay subject matter  movie where something bad has to happen to the gay guy. Not unlike the movie As Good as it Gets, and many many others. Its to bad this story/movie could not have been more of a clean slate and broken some new ground. BBM has more "gay is bad"  stereotypes and situations than the positive im afraid even for 1963. The message BBM sends is two men can fall in love and get each other off but nothing good will come of it and you will never be really happy if your "gay".  IMO this is a very anti gay film with a very good disguise as a love story to soften the blow. (no pun intended)

Offline Oregondoggie

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2008, 01:54:19 am »
Romeo and Juliet is a great anti-love story then? 

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Brokeback as an Anti-Gay Polemic : essay by W.C. Harris
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2008, 02:11:21 am »
Romeo and Juliet is a great anti-love story then? 

Its simply forbidden love of a different type.  In BBM the love between two men is looked upon many times as negative NEVER positive such as.. "Jack Nasty"  "Stemmin the rose"  "I don't have a job for you" and the rodeo clown scene and still another scene that was filmed but cut from the final film. All subtle anti gay innuendos. Why do you suppose the producers didn't hire a gay director? Think about it.