TOTW 06/08: Did Ennis die at the day described in the prologue?

[nakymaton]

Perhaps the prologue sounds as though Ennis is dying because Ennis has already died a bit, inside? There's something ghost-like about Ennis at the beginning and end of the story. (Not the part about pissing in the sink. I'm not sure if a sink-pissing ghost would be scary or funny or just unhygienic.)

[retropian]

This topic was just a passing comment, mentioned only in a side-sentence of a post which then moved on to another subject matter.
At first, I was like hunh? 

But the question stuck with me. I took my copy of the STS book and read the prologue again with this question in mind.

The prologue begins and ends with the wind rocking Ennis's trailer. And in between the wind is mentioned a third time. We associate the wind with Jack, so we can interpret the wind accompanying Ennis as Jack's spirit. The wind is a powerful presence in this short part of the story, and it is depicted as very strong, as rocking the trailer, hissing, booming, roaring. In short, it makes a lot of noise, almost like it would call out to Ennis. Is the wind (=Jack) calling Ennis on this day? Many people believe/are waiting for that departed loved ones are calling them "into the other world", when their time has come.


Another point is Ennis dwelling on his dream of Jack: "...lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, ..." Ennis sitting alone in his trailer, slipping deep into the world of his dreams and Jack calling him.

A third point is Annie's sentence "It could be bad on the highway with the horse trailer." Having read Annie's other short stories in Close Range, I fully believe she often intersperses hints of coming events into her stories and especially foreshadows coming doom. So this could be a hint.

One last aspect (for now) is Ennis's age. We don't know how much time has passed since the end of the story, but Ennis's belly and pubic hair is grey. I don't believe Ennis will live to be a very old man. We've discussed this long time ago (hey Jeff, it was you who was very close to my own feelings regarding this  ); I think due to poor health care, too much alcohol and cigarettes, poor diet, physically hard work and simply not caring about himself after Jack's death, Ennis will not live very long.

Wow. This is an interesting and fresh idea. I was thinking that the line "It could be bad on the highway with the horse trailer." might be a foreshadowing of an accident. Ennis's dream is his vision of paradise. So perhaps that was Ennis's last day. We'll have to ask Annie Proulx!

[belbbmfan]

Perhaps the prologue sounds as though Ennis is dying because Ennis has already died a bit, inside? There's something ghost-like about Ennis at the beginning and end of the story. (Not the part about pissing in the sink. I'm not sure if a sink-pissing ghost would be scary or funny or just unhygienic.)

Well, I read the messages on this thread and was going to post a serious reply and then I read this.....What can I say? Thanks for the laugh!   

I'll post a serious reply later, promise!

[mouk]

There was a fascinating discussion on this on the DC forum quite some time ago and several of the arguments were quite convincing. 'It could be bad on the road with the horses' was connected with the parents dying on the only curve on Dead Horse Road

Connexios were also found between the trailer and the doomed Thresher submarine. I won't say more on this right now not to spoil the excitement of finding your own connexions between the two if you wish to, and in the hope that new ideas will come out, taking the discussion further.

Oh, and there was a (separate) discussion on the symbolism of Ennis pissing in the sink - another TOTW perhaps??

Have 'fun'    

[Jeff Wrangler]

There was a fascinating discussion on this on the DC forum quite some time ago and several of the arguments were quite convincing. 'It could be bad on the road with the horses' was connected with the parents dying on the only curve on Dead Horse Road

Personally I don't find the foreshadowing idea convincing. When you write a story, I don't think you foreshadow something that doesn't take place (in your story).

Connexios were also found between the trailer and the doomed Thresher submarine. I won't say more on this right now not to spoil the excitement of finding your own connexions between the two if you wish to, and in the hope that new ideas will come out, taking the discussion further.

Oh, and there was a (separate) discussion on the symbolism of Ennis pissing in the sink - another TOTW perhaps??

Have 'fun'    

Symbolism of Ennis pissing in the sink? Oh, good grief. ...

We've discussed the sink-pissing here, too. Someone even found some relevant pictures (not of someong pissing in a sink). I won't repeat here what I said then, because it's OT, and in case Chrissi decides to make it a TOTW.

[Jeff Wrangler]

It would seem that the day described in the prologue is many years in the future from 1983 when Jack died. Perhaps AP meant us to think that it is in 1997, around the time she wrote the story. Ennis is described in the prologue as having gray hairs in his lower abdomen, that doesn't usually happen to men until they are in late middle age or early retirement years. I am in my early 50's and I am just now getting a few gray hairs on my chest, all other areas on me, except for the gray in the temples in my hairline, are still nice and toasty brown.

Gee, thanks. You're telling me I'm getting old prematurely. ...

(On a more serious, topic-related note, I'm glad someone else noticed this detail. I've written elsewhere that I feel it's one indication that the prologue takes place many years, perhaps a decade at least, after Jack's death, and that Ennis is still alone--no finding another male lover.)

[Penthesilea]

There was a fascinating discussion on this on the DC forum quite some time ago and several of the arguments were quite convincing.

Maybe the author of the post I read was referring to this discussion.

I'm going over to look for it - I'm not - I'm going - I'm not - ... 

I won't. At least not now. I'm waiting what my BetterMost comarades come up with and read the DC discussion later.

(On a more serious, topic-related note, I'm glad someone else noticed this detail. I've written elsewhere that I feel it's one indication that the prologue takes place many years, perhaps a decade at least, after Jack's death, and that Ennis is still alone--no finding another male lover.)

Hey bud, what am I, chopped liver? 
I talked about Ennis's grey pubic and belly hair (and it's indication of time passing) in my second post on this thread.
Tsk, tsk, tsk  Think you need more whiskey, then you'll see all the symbolic meanings clearly  . Nah, seriously, you're one of my fav persons to disagree with about the symbolic stuff  . How boring would it be if we all had the same opinions. This board would long be dead  .

[Jeff Wrangler]

Think you need more whiskey.

There's always room for more whiskey. ... 

[myprivatejack]

Well,I had never thought about this possibility,but I find interesting to speak about it...I must say that Ennis die,or begun to die,the day he knew Jack was murdered.Although at the same time,he began somehow a "new life",since his "coming out" before Jack's parents was a kind of liberation from him,introducing himself without really hiding his love...But surely he didn't take much care of himself,as someone has said,mainly being a lonely man,for incapability or perhaps,a kind of self-punishment?.
Being as it's a movie full with methaphors,it can be one of them the wind, as an announcement that he's going to reunite himself with Jack at the end.The same than some phrases that have been remarked here,can be perfectly an announcement of an accident as a way to this reunion.Why not?Or simply,an heart attack,because Ennis-even if he wasn't an old man still...-has prematurely get old from this lack of care or for sufferings-anyhow,several years had passed,according to the s.s.-.Or ,I repite,because he didn't want,he needn't to keep on living...

P.S.:About a sink-pissing ghost...well,more than Ennis ghost,it would be Jack's ghost,who was funnier...

[souxi]

Maybe the author of the post I read was referring to this discussion.

I'm going over to look for it - I'm not - I'm going - I'm not - ... 

I won't. At least not now. I'm waiting what my BetterMost comarades come up with and read the DC discussion later.



Hey bud, what am I, chopped liver? 
I talked about Ennis's grey pubic and belly hair (and it's indication of time passing) in my second post on this thread.
Tsk, tsk, tsk  Think you need more whiskey, then you'll see all the symbolic meanings clearly  . Nah, seriously, you're one of my fav persons to disagree with about the symbolic stuff  . How boring would it be if we all had the same opinions. This board would long be dead  .

*Ahem*
Jeff isn,t the only one who doesn,t agree with all this symbolic stuff lol. Re pissing in the sink, I mean the only thing that symbolises to me is that he woke up in the morning, desperate for a pee, couldn,t make it to the bathroom on time so he pissed in the sink. End of lol.   And don,t even get me started on buckets.