Author Topic: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?  (Read 50304 times)

Offline optom3

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2008, 09:14:06 pm »
Did anyone mention booze ??

Is that suppose to be fun ??

Hugs!

I think the whisky is actually quite important.Initially Ennis drinks from his cup,but as the 2 become closer they just swig from the bottle,passing it from one to another.Ennis I think drinks from a cup the night of the bear incident.The next time we see them drinking they are bonding more and sharing the bottle.
I also think the whisky literally loosens Ennis up a bit,he becomes more talkative,smiles, and of course eventually becomes so drunk,that we have the wonderful TS1.
Whisky continues to form a part of their fishing trips.
I sometimes wonder, after the initial uncontrolable passion of the reunion kiss,where the physical takes over completely,whetherEnnis maybe needs a couple of drinks to loosen up and cope with the permanant guilt he feels.
He treads a thin line always between what he feels, and what he allows himself to feel.It could be that the whisky,and in a later scene,the joint,relax him sufficiently.to allow himself to "feel".
I am sure lots of us have used booze to relax us for many reasons.

Offline Artiste

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2008, 09:20:00 pm »
So with the audience, it is NOT seen as funny parts... is booze??

But Ennis and Jack sees it as fun??

Hugs! When I see booze, I am always figuring: not funny,  since I have seen too many of my friends died now from it!! I guess I rarely see boozing as fun!! ??

Offline optom3

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2008, 09:40:44 pm »
So with the audience, it is NOT seen as funny parts... is booze??

But Ennis and Jack sees it as fun??

Hugs! When I see booze, I am always figuring: not funny,  since I have seen too many of my friends died now from it!! I guess I rarely see boozing as fun!! ??

I can agree with that. Lureen says of Jack "he drank a lot" I think for Jack and Ennis whisky was a coping mechanism.With Ennis it loosened him up.freeing him somewhat.With Jack I think it was more drink to ease the pain.
Within the context of the film,I do feel there are some light hearted alcohol moments,such as Ennis stumbling over the pans.But on the whole I think the alcohol reveals deeper sadness than joy.As is often the case.It fills a an aching gap for both men that,Ennis will not allow himself to occupy.

Offline Artiste

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2008, 10:05:40 pm »
Thanks optom!

You say:
I can agree with that. Lureen says of Jack "he drank a lot" I think for Jack and Ennis whisky was a coping mechanism.With Ennis it loosened him up.freeing him somewhat.With Jack I think it was more drink to ease the pain.
Within the context of the film,I do feel there are some light hearted alcohol moments,such as Ennis stumbling over the pans.But on the whole I think the alcohol reveals deeper sadness than joy.As is often the case.It fills a an aching gap for both men that,Ennis will not allow himself to occupy.
 
.......

Fiona (optom) may I agree.

To me since I am an artist-painter, what images comes to mind are these:
clowns -
a- they clown around with booze, giving a smile, but deep inside each is sad, unfortunately, most times!!
And they get to be more sad EVEN TOGETHER since booze makes one that way!! Booze gets you into deeper depression, but people think otherwise - a duality comes in the picture!! ??

b- also, Jack likes to be a special clown (and knows that as a tool as many alcoholics do) : a jester or a buffon (in French)?? Since, he is accustomed to booze (even before seing Ennis for the first time, maybe?) As a jester, he can entertain Ennis; Jack falls, trips, amuzes Ennis!! As to become a boon companion to Ennis!! Un bon vivant!! Full of life!! It shows too Jack's bounteous nature: generous, caring, amuzing, etc., to hide his sadness!! ??

So the clown role of Jack is funny?


Au revoir,
hugs!!

Offline optom3

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2008, 10:56:34 pm »
Thanks optom!

You say:
I can agree with that. Lureen says of Jack "he drank a lot" I think for Jack and Ennis whisky was a coping mechanism.With Ennis it loosened him up.freeing him somewhat.With Jack I think it was more drink to ease the pain.
Within the context of the film,I do feel there are some light hearted alcohol moments,such as Ennis stumbling over the pans.But on the whole I think the alcohol reveals deeper sadness than joy.As is often the case.It fills a an aching gap for both men that,Ennis will not allow himself to occupy.
 
.......

Fiona (optom) may I agree.

To me since I am an artist-painter, what images comes to mind are these:
clowns -
a- they clown around with booze, giving a smile, but deep inside each is sad, unfortunately, most times!!
And they get to be more sad EVEN TOGETHER since booze makes one that way!! Booze gets you into deeper depression, but people think otherwise - a duality comes in the picture!! ??

b- also, Jack likes to be a special clown (and knows that as a tool as many alcoholics do) : a jester or a buffon (in French)?? Since, he is accustomed to booze (even before seing Ennis for the first time, maybe?) As a jester, he can entertain Ennis; Jack falls, trips, amuzes Ennis!! As to become a boon companion to Ennis!! Un bon vivant!! Full of life!! It shows too Jack's bounteous nature: generous, caring, amuzing, etc., to hide his sadness!! ??

So the clown role of Jack is funny?


Au revoir,
hugs!!

I agree,the classic image of the clown or buffoon,with his painted on smile hiding a sad heart.It is not a coincidence that so many kids are scared of clowns.Mine certainly used to be.There is something achingly sad almost ghoulish about them.Kids see things as they are and so are frightened.On the surface Jack clowning around is light hearted but I think hides a deeper sadness.Superficially it is funny,scratch deeper and it is truly deeply sad.
And yes just as the drinker use alcohol to mask his feelings so we have the anology with the clown and his mask.In the film all combine,the clown,alcohol and the ache.Jack initally uses his clown act to mask his true feelings for Ennis,which he has already acknowledged to himself.It is also an opportunity to introduce some levity to the situation,and try to break down some of Ennis's barriers.
Laughter is the best medicine,and it could be argued that Ennis is sick.Plagued by guilt for what he is starting to feel.So Jack tries to make him laugh.Also many people use alcohol as "medicine"
So many analogies.Clowns,masks,laughter,alcohol,medicine,all are intertwined so very subtely and so cleverly by Proulx.

Offline BlissC

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2008, 08:43:55 am »
On the surface Jack clowning around is light hearted but I think hides a deeper sadness.Superficially it is funny,scratch deeper and it is truly deeply sad.
And yes just as the drinker use alcohol to mask his feelings so we have the anology with the clown and his mask.In the film all combine,the clown,alcohol and the ache.Jack initally uses his clown act to mask his true feelings for Ennis,which he has already acknowledged to himself.It is also an opportunity to introduce some levity to the situation,and try to break down some of Ennis's barriers.

A very valid point. I've always looked on Jack as the more optimistic of the two of them (sweet life, and bluebirds and whiskey streams and all that), but I think his laughter and his humour maybe do mask a deeper sadness. Thinking of him life that he reminds me of an ex of mine - always the life and soul of parties, always playing the clown, and cheering other people up, but that was all an act. I was one of the very few people whoever saw beneath that mask, and even when it was just the two of us, so often that mask was firmly fixed in place.

Wasn't Periot, the sad French clown the "original" clown?

Speaking of clowns, it's also reminded me of the scene where Jack makes a pass at the rodeo clown. Jack's whole expression and his demenour in that scene is subdued, and sad somehow, and of the two of them I guess it's Jack who's the real clown.

Quote
Laughter is the best medicine,and it could be argued that Ennis is sick.Plagued by guilt for what he is starting to feel.So Jack tries to make him laugh.Also many people use alcohol as "medicine"
So many analogies.Clowns,masks,laughter,alcohol,medicine,all are intertwined so very subtely and so cleverly by Proulx.

Again, I totally agree. Jack is very perceptive in reading Ennis's moods up on the mountain, and he always seems to know the right words and the right actions to make Ennis smile. He does "act the clown" a lot - when he does his rodeo cowboy impression and Ennis that sets Ennis off laughing so hard that the screenplay describes it that they "both laugh so hard, they almost cry", when he does his "Oooooeee!" when Ennis shoots the deer...Jack's always there with his one-liners giving Ennis the punch line and a chance for them to laugh and break the tension.

Again, alcohol often is a form of medicine. I know recently when I got some bad news about my health situation, the first thing I did that night when I got home was crack open a bottle of vodka and pour myself a damned big vodka and tonic. With one of the drugs I'm on in particular I shouldn't really   drink alcohol, but needed to chill out, and it did the trick. In the same way Jack and Ennis need the whiskey to break the tension between them. I think probably in the story, on the mountain alcohol was probably more of a "medicinal" prop in that it allowed them both to relax more, and although I think there was sadness in both of them, I think it was probably only later on when alcohol became more than just something to help them chill out. Lureen's "he drank a lot" suggest that for Jack at least, his coping mechanism was more than just an occasional prop in later years, and the fact that she mentioned it to Ennis suggests that it was something fairly significant in his life. With Ennis though we don't see him drinking a lot through the years. His sadness eats at him in different ways.

Damn! How did a thread about fun things get so depressing?  :-\


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Offline Artiste

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2008, 10:41:59 am »
Thanks bliss, thanks optom!!

Wow!  Much news that you two bring with your recent posts, again!! Thanks!!

Bliss, you ask:
Damn! How did a thread about fun things get so depressing?

............

Bliss, you bring up a good question! Do you suppose that sadness is the other side of the blade of happiness?? I do not know how to phrase it otherwise... right now!
............

At the beginning of the movie, which one is more sad? Ennis or Jack?

At the beginning of the movie, which one is more happy? Ennis or Jack?

Is that hard to say?

At least, it is fun to see Jack cruising... right away Ennis?

And is Ennis having fun being cruised?

Hugs!


Offline Artiste

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2008, 10:43:20 am »
Are beans fun?

Can they be considered fun in the BM movie?

Hugs!

Offline Mandy21

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2008, 10:45:40 am »
Fiona and Bliss, you've made some brilliant observations / analogies, especially with the clowns and masks, I love that one.  Never occurred to me before, but it's dead on.  I think they both wear masks, but that Jack feels freer to take his off a bit more than Ennis does.  Alcohol as a way to relax, and later, for Jack, as a way to numb.  Also loved the comment above about the switch between Ennis accepting the whiskey in a cup (love the way he says, "ank you"), vs. later sharing from the same bottle, and sharing the same joint on their final night.  Definitely a step of intimacy and trust in a person, wanting to get closer to them somehow.

All very great thoughts for a Monday morning, ladies, thanks!  ;D
Dawn is coming,
Open your eyes...

Offline Artiste

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Re: To you, what is FUN for you in the BM movie?
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2008, 10:46:18 am »
Laughter is the best medicine!  

Optom, wow, you bring up a great fun time in the BM movie!

Remember?

Au revoir,
hugs!