who/what in BBBM/real life would you like to "fix "rather than stand?

[brokeplex]

the question you asked, would moving in with Jack have fixed things for Ennis. my answer is no, it would have completely cut him off from his daughters, and made him even more paranoid than he already was.

jack would have liked living with ennis for a while, but perhaps the reason their romance lasted as long as it did, was because they did not move in together.

[Mandy21]

Artiste, I absolutely love the way you worded that:

"a-how can you fix a life?
b-how can you stand a life?"

Deep questions...  I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack.  I wish it weren't so, but it seems that it is.

[optom3]

Artiste, I absolutely love the way you worded that:

"a-how can you fix a life?
b-how can you stand a life?"

Deep questions...  I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack.  I wish it weren't so, but it seems that it is.

I agree, wish I didn't.It would have to have been in   a more enlightened time/place.
As it stood then,even living with Jack would have been as per Coldplay lyrics,
"when you get what you want" ---Jack, full time  "but not what you need" the paranoia and guilt that would have gone with it.
So in my opinion he really could not fix it.He would have needed real long term therapy to free his mind,from years of repression,fear,guilt etc.That was not going to happen,on any level,financially,socially etc.
Only conclusion then was to stand it.
My 1st husband ended up having a complete breakdown,followed by intensive therapy before he could "come out" That was in so called more enlightened times ,in a relatively,gay tolerant country.And without many of the deep rooted fears of Ennis.Just a more general fear of homophobia and family reactions.
So what hope for Ennis.

[Artiste]

Thanks optom, thanks Mandy, thanks brokeplex, and thanks to others too!!

Wow, your posts are pensive!!

Mandy, you say:
I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack!
.......

Mandy: Wow, I am surprised!!

And optom you added abiout Ennis:
He would have needed real long term therapy to free his mind,from years of repression,fear,guilt etc.That was not going to happen,on any level,financially,socially etc.!!
.....

Optom: that surprises me too!!

.........

And brokeplex: you sure puzzle me too by saying Ennis:
would moving in with Jack have fixed things for Ennis. my answer is no, it would have completely cut him off from his daughters, and made him even more paranoid than he already was.
.........

Brokeplex: you think that Ennis would have become more paranoid!! Wow, wow!!

May I ask you and all:
And Jack too??

...........

And, brokeplex, you added:
Jack would have liked living with Ennis for a while, but perhaps the reason their romance lasted as long as it did, was because they did not move in together.
.........

To you all: so these two gay/straight/bi guys would have such difficulties living together, that they needed to see a therapist even BEFORE moving together, and even, after that, more and more help from a specialist or many specialists??

What if they would have gotten a specialist who is homophobic?
Would Jack stand that homophobic therapist? Would Ennis?
Would either one stand that bigot therapist?

Food for thought?

Awaiting your news,
au revoir,
hugs!!

[Mandy21]

Artiste, I simply thought that Ennis had so many leftover childhood repressed memories and fears instilled in him, that he never would have been able to live in the same house with a man, no matter how much he loved him.  I agree with the observation that maybe the reason their relationship lasted so long was purely because they saw each other so few times, and those times were always special and mysterious, and they both saw to it that they were magical moments, every one of them.

Afraid I don't agree that either of them would have seen a therapist in that day and age, Fiona, just my opinion.  Surely not a common thing to do back then.  Did any of you folks see the movie "Far From Heaven" with Dennis Quaid (ironically enough) and Julianne Moore?  Shrinks can't exactly cure being gay, can they?  And why would they want to, anyway?

[Artiste]

Thanks Mandy!
May I say:
Some shrinks are gay and try to help gay men accept their sexual orientation BETTER!! At least, that is what I see in ads and writings I saw in a gay Quebec monthly I think it is!! Any therapist(s) here on Bettermost to mention something to us?

To me, Ennis could come to accept his life with living with Jack... on the long run !! With help if needed??

Ennis would rather then fix than stand ??

Anyone??

What would you suggest that a therapist helps with??

Hugs!!

[brokeplex]

To me, Ennis could come to accept his life with living with Jack... on the long run !! With help if needed??

it is very doubtful to me that Ennis could ever have accepted living with Jack. I doubt seriously if there were any therapists available, and Ennis would have looked upon it as a shameful thing to go to a therapist. mental illness is right up there with homosexuality in the shame gallery for someone like Ennis.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

True is what you say!

However, maybe instead of shame, one can see a therapist, a gay one, for acceptance...as to be joyous, like to feel like a group ??

In a way, wasn't Jack a therapist to Ennis?

And wasn't Ennis trying to be a therapist to Jack ?

What do you and others too think?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

True is what you say!

However, maybe instead of shame, one can see a therapist, a gay one, for acceptance...as to be joyous, like to feel like a group ??

In a way, wasn't Jack a therapist to Ennis?

And wasn't Ennis trying to be a therapist to Jack ?

What do you and others too think?

Hugs!

It is not realistic to expect what you are suggesting of the characters Jack and Ennis in BM. If you chose to rewrite the story using a different locale and characters, go ahead, but I think that story was written long ago, and it would not be BM. The uniqueness of BM is that it tells the tale of two men from an environment that has been long neglected. There are many other tales of gay men in many different environments, lets respect this tale with all of its lessons and limitations, to do otherwise just misses the meaning of the story and the film. 

[Mandy21]

Brokeplex, I agree with your statement; it was unrealistic to imagine Ennis ever soliciting a therapist for help.  Hell, he couldn't even admit what he thought were his weaknesses (even though they weren't) to himself.  How in the whole wide world could he have ever admitted it to another???

Artiste, I also believe that both Jack and Ennis tried their whole lives together to be sort of therapists to each other, from the moment that Jack says it's all right in TS2.  But does that mean they ever succeeded?  If so, would Ennis have been on his knees crying in the final scene, and would Jack have been trying so hard to understand this moment of desperation/hopelessness/weakness in a man he perceived as so strong for 20 years?

I don't know, maybe you'd like to explain?