Texas Polygamy Sect

[Jeff Wrangler]

mothers get to stay with them if they are under 4 I believe.

I heard that, too. I'm just thinking back that if I had been forcibly kept from my mother when I was, say, 7 or 8, I would have been traumatized beyond belief.

or having members from other compounds come and spirit the children away. Which I believe is what happened to the girl that called for help. IF she isn't dead.

Or if she even existed in the first place. 

that is what has me puzzled? why didn't CPS and the local authorities drag the perps off? if the perps were removed, the victims could have been left in their in their homes and not dragged off to some holding camp! the whole episode make the local Schleicher Co authorities and CPS look like bunglers.

Three of the women and a lawyer were on Today this morning. The lawyer raised a point I found interesting. The authorities are treating the whole kit and kaboodle as one family, or so the lawyer says, instead of treating the individual families, well, individually. The women made me think of zombies.

I'm not sure, but last I heard, they're still holed up 'somewhere' in the compound and the authorities are trying to keep the thing from turning into a standoff.  Or that's the impression I got.

Seems to me if they're holed up somewhere, and the authorities aren't letting them in or out, then they've got a de facto standoff. Only a matter of time before the shooting starts.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

You know I heard on the news they were looking for Foster homes for those 401 children. I think if I had to place that many children I would be open to placing them in homes owned by other families besides the Fosters. How many Fosters can there be? And Just because they are Fosters they might not want any children.

[HerrKaiser]

I think there is no one who violently demands protection of children and other victims from crimes such as being accused here.

But, i am very concerned the actions of the Texas Rangers style assault team of CPS zealots has stretched far their authority and sorely abused the rights of many in this compound. It is llooking to me like an anti-church thing, at least in part.

With only an anonymous call (and the caller STILL not having come forth) and months of "undercover" work with only sketchy info, the charges remain largely without evidence substantial enough to support a 'real' case. The rounding up of the children and stealing them away from parents makes Guantanamo look like a cake walk. Yes, kidnapping kids and separating them from parents is torture. Nowhere in our legal justice system is it considered due process to encircle and arrest an entire population for suspected illegal behavior or one or a few. I feel like I'm watching nazis marching down the streets of San Angelo TX but not with swastikas and umpa bands, but with CPS badges.

[brokeplex]

I think there is no one who violently demands protection of children and other victims from crimes such as being accused here.

But, i am very concerned the actions of the Texas Rangers style assault team of CPS zealots has stretched far their authority and sorely abused the rights of many in this compound. It is llooking to me like an anti-church thing, at least in part.

With only an anonymous call (and the caller STILL not having come forth) and months of "undercover" work with only sketchy info, the charges remain largely without evidence substantial enough to support a 'real' case. The rounding up of the children and stealing them away from parents makes Guantanamo look like a cake walk. Yes, kidnapping kids and separating them from parents is torture. Nowhere in our legal justice system is it considered due process to encircle and arrest an entire population for suspected illegal behavior or one or a few. I feel like I'm watching nazis marching down the streets of San Angelo TX but not with swastikas and umpa bands, but with CPS badges.

I certainly agree that CPS and especially the local Schleicher county authorities messed this up from the gitgo. It seems that if there were solid evidence necessary to call out the Rangers, charges should have been filed and the accused perps should have been frogmarched out of the compound. I think that what we see is CPS grabbing some headlines without the local authorities doing the proper intelligence on the ground to make their actions meaningful.

I am inclined to believe that a polygamist sect that marries off women under 15 and ejects young boys from the compound at that age, needs some very close examination, and really shouldn't be protected under the "freedom of religion" clause in the US or the TX constitutions.

[delalluvia]

I certainly agree that CPS and especially the local Schleicher county authorities messed this up from the gitgo. It seems that if there were solid evidence necessary to call out the Rangers, charges should have been filed and the accused perps should have been frogmarched out of the compound. I think that what we see is CPS grabbing some headlines without the local authorities doing the proper intelligence on the ground to make their actions meaningful.

I am inclined to believe that a polygamist sect that marries off women under 15 and ejects young boys from the compound at that age, needs some very close examination, and really shouldn't be protected under the "freedom of religion" clause in the US or the TX constitutions.

Ditto.  There were reports of men patrolling the compound with guns also makes me very uneasy.  This kind of thing can lead to a Mt. Carmel or a Jonestown where people are no longer able to leave even if they wanted to without running the gauntlet of men with guns.  And if the women wanted to leave?  With kids in tow?  Does this sound like a risk they would be willing to take?

After all the killing was done at Mt. Carmel and Jonestown, people were aghast at how could something like this be allowed to happen?.  Because when people saw men patrolling compounds with guns, they did nothing from without or within.

What is also suspicious is the fact that when given the opportunity to defend their faith - the women ignored or refused to answer questions about the age at which they were married and the accusations of underaged girls being wed.

Seems like they're well aware they are breaking the law and have been told by their lawyer how to avoid incriminating themselves with public statements because they know they will also be charged.

No way freedom of religion should protect them from prosecution.

[LauraGigs]

I am inclined to believe that a polygamist sect that marries off women under 15 and ejects young boys from the compound at that age . . .

If a female is under 15, she's a girl.  (Wouldn't usually nit-pick, but in this case the semantics are important...)

Anyway, I don't believe the Texas legal system would be interfering here (evacuating on such a huge scale) without a pretty clear-cut case.  The details evidently haven't made it to the newswires yet, and shouldn't any time soon because of issues with protecting the identities of the minors involved. 

And at the core of the case is alleged child rape and sexual abuse (and in the case of the boys, abandonment) which I think would rank pretty high on the trauma scale.

And the state/local law enforcement has gotten this far in the process with no violence -- no one injured at all.  I'd say they're doing something right.

[HerrKaiser]

And the state/local law enforcement has gotten this far in the process with no violence -- no one injured at all.  I'd say they're doing something right.

"no one injured at all" yet you use the "trauma" scale to help justify these government actions? how about the trauma and injury being suffered by over 400 little kids who have been literally kidnapped from their parents? how about the trauma for those parents?

It will be interesting to see what the governement has cooked up to justify this assault on basic human rights. The wailing that has taken place for the lack of valid reasons to go to war in Iraq is leveraged against a series of UN resolutions and published intelligence from France, UK, Germany and Russia.

All the CPS in TX had was an anonymous call from someone who they can't even find. 

I wonder if Bush got an anonymous call from a cell phone in Bagdad (who was never found) that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was raping women and torturing citizens...if the war would have been more supported.

Surely, any crimes commited against the children or adults must be prosecuted, but the process that has taken place sends a chilling chiver up my spine. Take note:

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

I fear that could one day be:

"...first they came for the religious compounds and I did not speak out..."

[brokeplex]

"no one injured at all" yet you use the "trauma" scale to help justify these government actions? how about the trauma and injury being suffered by over 400 little kids who have been literally kidnapped from their parents? how about the trauma for those parents?

It will be interesting to see what the governement has cooked up to justify this assault on basic human rights. The wailing that has taken place for the lack of valid reasons to go to war in Iraq is leveraged against a series of UN resolutions and published intelligence from France, UK, Germany and Russia.

All the CPS in TX had was an anonymous call from someone who they can't even find. 

I wonder if Bush got an anonymous call from a cell phone in Bagdad (who was never found) that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was raping women and torturing citizens...if the war would have been more supported.

Surely, any crimes commited against the children or adults must be prosecuted, but the process that has taken place sends a chilling chiver up my spine. Take note:

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

I fear that could one day be:

"...first they came for the religious compounds and I did not speak out..."

Kaiser, in this case I'm not so sure this is an "assault on human rights". Incompetence on the part of the locals, most definitely, but when I consider what was apparently happening inside the cult's compound, I have to wonder just what took the local authorities so long to act.

It appears that the facts are:

1) underage girls were either brainwashed or coerced into marrying much older men,
2) underage boys were being expelled and abandoned as they entered mid puberty,
3) there was a rather large armed presence around the compound, suggesting an armed camp.

I recognize that the cult's male leadership and the cooperative mothers of the children should have their day in court, and I await their testimony as to why they created and allowed such a situation to develop.

I am also interested in why local Schleicher County authorities allowed this situation to continue as long as it did. That would mean hearings at the County commissioners court, maybe a complaint needs to be filed. Hmm?

[Jeff Wrangler]

I am also interested in why local Schleicher County authorities allowed this situation to continue as long as it did. That would mean hearings at the County commissioners court, maybe a complaint needs to be filed. Hmm?

I've been wondering that, too. From the looks of the place, those people have been there a good, long while.

[brokeplex]

I've been wondering that, too. From the looks of the place, those people have been there a good, long while.

you are exactly right, the compound is clearly visible in the El Dorado area, the people there knew of the activities of the cult, and yet no ISD officials ever checked into what was happening to the children. Under TX law, children can be home schooled, in fact given the public schools it is a good idea, but local ISD officials must inspect at regular intervals and test the students to make certain that their schooling meets state standards. There was ample reason for local officials to know the full extent of the activities of this cult long ago. That is what concerns me. How did the ISD, municipal and county officials drop the ball for so long?