Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are

[Impish]

Declaration of the Free

            We have no falsehoods to defend
            We want the facts;
            Our force, our thought, we do not spend
            In vain attacks.
            And we will never meanly try
            To save some fair and pleasing lie.

            The simple truth is what we ask,
            Not the ideal;
            We've set ourselves the noble task
            To find the real.
            If all there is naught but dross,
            We want to know and bear our loss.

            We will not willingly be fooled,
            By fables nursed;
            Our hearts, by earnest thought, are schooled
            To bear the worst;
            And we can stand erect and dare
            All things. all facts that really are.

            We have no God to serve or fear,
            No hell to shun,
            No devil with malicious leer.
            When life is done
            An endless sleep may close our eyes.
            A sleep with neither dreams nor sighs.

            We have no master on the land --
            No king in air --
            Without a manacle we stand,
            Without a prayer,
            Without a fear of coming night,
            We seek the truth, we love the light.

            We do not bow before a guess,
            A vague unknown;
            A senseless force we do not bless
            In solemn tone.
            When evil comes we do not curse,
            Or thank because it is no worse.

            When cyclones rend -- when lightning blights,
            'Tis naught but fate;
            There is no God of wrath who smites
            In heartless hate.
            Behind the things that injure man
            There is no purpose, thought, or plan.

            We waste no time in useless dread,
            In trembling fear;
            The present lives, the past is dead,
            And we are here,
            All welcome guests at life's great feast --
            We need no help from ghost or priest.

            Our life is joyous, jocund, free --
            Not one a slave
            Who bends in fear the trembling knee,
            And seeks to save
            A coward soul from future pain;
            Not one will cringe or crawl for gain.

            The jeweled cup of love we drain,
            And friendship's wine
            Now swiftly flows in every vein
            With warmth divine.
            And so we love and hope and dream
            That in death's sky there is a gleam.

            We walk according to our light,
            Pursue the path
            That leads to honor's stainless height,
            Careless of wrath
            Or curse of God, or priestly spite,
            Longing to know and do the right.

            We love our fellow-man, our kind,
            Wife, child, and friend.
            To phantoms we are deaf and blind,
            But we extend
            The helping hand to the distressed;
            By lifting others we are blessed.

            Love's sacred flame within the heart
            And friendship's glow;
            While all the miracles of art
            Their wealth bestow
            Upon the thrilled and joyous brain,
            And present raptures banish pain.

            We love no phantoms of the skies,
            But living flesh,
            With passion's soft and soulful eyes,
            Lips warm and fresh,
            And cheeks with health's red flag unfurled,
            The breathing angels of this world.

            The hands that help are better far
            Than lips that pray.
            Love is the ever gleaming star
            That leads the way,
            That shines, not on vague worlds of bliss,
            But on a paradise in this.

            We do not pray, or weep, or wail;
            We have no dread,
            No fear to pass beyond the veil
            That hides the dead.
            And yet we question, dream, and guess,
            But knowledge we do not possess.

            We ask, yet nothing seems to know;
            We cry in vain.
            There is no "master of the show"
            Who will explain,
            Or from the future tear the mask;
            And yet we dream, and still we ask

            Is there beyond the silent night
            An endless day;
            Is death a door that leads to light?
            We cannot say.
            The tongueless secret locked in fate
            We do not know. -- We hope and wait.

Robert G. Ingersoll (1889)

[delalluvia]

There was a new movie released this summer called "Jesus Camp"
 
Plot Outline: A documentary on kids who attend a summer camp hoping to become the next Billy Graham.
 
 
"Jesus Camp" revolves around a pentecostal minister who hosts a summer camp for children in North Dakota, and the sectarian Christian conservative families who send their children to this camp. Directors Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady wisely chose to avoid the polemical tone of most politically-motivated films, and instead opt to present a mostly unfiltered glimpse of this odd subculture. But through carefully selected images and the use of talk radio commentary as a framing device, they construct a subtle, yet damning narrative about a religious movement that isolates its children from mainstream culture, indoctrinates them into right-wing causes, and uses them as political props.

At Jesus Camp, the daily activities include standard camp fare such as spelunking and go-karts, but they also include speaking in tongues and smashing coffee mugs emblazoned with the word "government". Children learn that "science doesn't prove anything," and learn to consider themselves part of an Army of God. They are compelled to pledge that they will fight to end abortion. They are even pushed into publicly confessing their impure thoughts, and many of them cry and wail charismatically.

The camp director explains that she admires the way Islamic cultures raise children so devoted they will risk their lives for their faith. When we ultimately see several of the campers being placed by their parents on the steps of the Capitol with tape over their mouths, protesting abortion, the real purpose of this camp is driven home.

But the most touching scenes are the ones where the children are alone, and we see the ways that this indoctrination creeps into the most innocent elements of childhood. 11 year old Tori loves dancing to Christian rock, but frets that it's not always easy to dance for God instead of "dancing for the flesh." On an outing to the bowling alley, 9 year old Rachael feels compelled to walk up to strangers and awkwardly evangelize to them, without being prompted. A roomful of boys telling ghost stories after dark are interrupted by an adult who warns them about stories that don't glorify God.

No doubt some viewers will accuse the filmmakers of the dreaded liberal bias. But this is not a work of fiction, nor is it slanted reporting. These are real people and real events, captured on film. If the evangelical movement comes off badly in this film, the people on screen have no one but themselves to blame.

[Shuggy]

I saw Televangelist Benny Hinn at work this morning. If it wasnt so tragic it would be funny. He pushed one woman down three times, "driving the devil out of her"*, and her minders bounced her back up as if she was on a trampoline. He told God to make an young man into a preacher. God did not reply.



You may have heard this one - you really have to see it (act out all parts):

EVANGELIST: I ve converted my dog. Hes now an evangelist. Look.
(to DOG) Pray!
 
(DOG puts paws into doggy attitude of prayer/begging)

EVANGELIST (to DOG): Praise!

(DOG waves paws in the air.)


BYSTANDER: Thats all very well, but can he do ordinary doggy tricks?
(to DOG) Heel!

(DOG pushes LISTENER TO THE JOKE in the forehead)

[delalluvia]

http://modernfreaktshirts.com/supersized/supersizevampirejesus.jpg

[Impish]

I just finished reading Sam Harris' new book "Letter to a Christian Nation."

It's a cute little thing: a short book in a small binding.  It doesn't introduce anything knew compared to his first book "The End of Faith," but condenses the central arguments and re-presents them in a second-person, letter-like prose.  For example, "Billions of people share your belief that the Creator wrote (or dictated) one of our books."

It's clear that Harris hopes to make his thinking accessible to more people, especially Christian Americans. 

If you are intrigued by the topic matter, I recommend "The End of Faith" for a more thorough analysis of the problems inherent in magical beliefs.  If the longer book puts you off, then give this short -- less than 100 pages -- book a try. 

Tonight I start Richard Dawkins' newest book, just released last week.  It's called "The God Delusion."

[dirtbiker]

A little late on this thread, but I'm atheist also!  Brought up catholic, moved to agnosticism then atheism, now more of an anti-theist.  How's everyone?

[Monika]

I´m also an atheist. I suppose I was brought up one, my parents have never shown any interest in anything religious. But my grandmother was a salvation soldier and as a child I was a member in the salvation army. Looking back at that time, I had pretty fun (they arranged many activities and events), but I can also see that it wasn´t my own choice. And I was there to hang out with firends, play fotball and participate in other activities. I was too little to really understand the religious aspect.
I dropped out when I was about 12 - 13 because I had a best friend who wasn´t a member and it was much more fun to hang with her
I was born during a period when it was still the case that every newborn automatically became a member of the Swedish church (since around 1990 this is no longer the case), but I also dropped out of that at age 18.

I´d call myself an atheist and humanist. And as such, I feel pretty good about living here. Religion is not something that I encounter very often. Religion has very little significance in the public debate here and I don´t have to listen to politicians using "god" to win political points.

There is plenty of religious stuff to find here for those who seek it, but like me, if you´re not looking for it, it´s fairly easy to stay clear from.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I remember posting to this tread a few years ago, and I think in someways my views of spirituality has changed. I don't call my self and atheist, or agnostic, I think what would describe my beliefs better is "I don't care".

The tradition of myth and magic has only the power we give it by believing in it. Me, I am just happy not to be responsible for perpetuating that mess. I would rather put energy into the vision John Lennon had. "Imagine all the people, living life in peace,"

[louisev]

Let's deal with these one after the other:

<Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?> 

No, it isn't God's job to prevent evil: it is our job.

<Then he is not omnipotent.>  We are God's body, and it is our responsibility to govern ourselves in the physical form.  And through us collectively, we ARE omnipotent.

<Is He able, but not willing?>  The Divinity is ever willing, but we must be able because WE have free will as we were created to act as WE will.

<Then whence cometh evil?>  That is obvious.  Through our willful actions that are destructive to others.

<Is he neither able nor willing?>  Neither.  Non sequitur input.

The profoundly erroneous view that Divinity is somehow a created thing with manlike attributes is the foundation of all ill-conceived atheism.

God is Immanent.  That means the Divine Essence is pervasive, universal, uncreated and without beginning or end. We are manifestations of that Immanence.  It's up to us.

[dirtbiker]

Buffymon, you are lucky to be born in Sweden.  Here in the US, religion is so pervasive that you just can't get away from it, with daily references in media, politics, education, etc.

Shakesthecoffeecan, I wish I can have an "I don't care" attitude.  Maybe if I was living in Europe, it would be easier, but not here in the US when we're reminded of it every day and encroaches on our lives insidiously.  Left unchecked, it wouldn't be far fetched to think of the US turning into a theocracy, something Sarah Palin, the buffoon, aims to achieve.

Impish, I read Sam Harris' books a while back and I agree with you - they are very readable and presents his case, along with rebuttals in his follow up Letter to a Christian Nation.  I'm surprised you're just starting out on Richard Dawkin's God Delusion!  I have the book on audiobook also, and I like to listen to it sometimes when I'm taking a long road trip.  Helps me pass the time.