Author Topic: The imagined power of BBM ?  (Read 17736 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2008, 10:40:30 pm »
If I am obsessed, then so are you ! Touché !

I know that you do not yet or ever will see, unfortunately, the relationship broken or not done by Ennis and Jack, as a gay couple or so, as well as marrying women, as problematic as maybe or likely Annie and the Brokeback Mountain movie forecasts it also as a like a radical muslim or another religion radicalism against gays !

I see that as an extension !! You  don't obviously, right ?

So, give it a rest and maybe you will see clearly later !

There are always two sides to every coin, you know ?

Concerning two fucks, to use your expression, that is there business, and not anybody else !! Surely !

Your own sex escapades are your own ! Unless your are like a muslim with legally 4 wives same time and sell  your children to China to be used not as slaves but really into slavery to-day !

There are many things which are unfair in the BM movie which we need to ponder about ! Life then and life to-day and life tomorrow too !!

No one can be that blind to Annie purposes !! Which are varied, and not only for straight disliking gays ! Nor not for lip-service !

Much need to be said !

BM movie displays much... unsaid yet !

Au revoir,
hugs!


Offline sel

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2008, 07:17:38 am »
The real "power" was the love he and Jack shared

Mariez, Optom3 and BlissC,
I love  your posts, I think I got it too.

Artiste,
Forgive me but on this occasion I don't seem to be able to understand you.
BbM, I swear

Offline BlissC

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2008, 08:14:46 am »
Well for a start I'm not quite sure what I'm obsessed with. I have only two obsessions, and both of those involve my computer.  :laugh:

I know that you do not yet or ever will see, unfortunately, the relationship broken or not done by Ennis and Jack, as a gay couple or so, as well as marrying women, as problematic as maybe or likely Annie and the Brokeback Mountain movie forecasts it also as a like a radical muslim or another religion radicalism against gays !

I see that as an extension !! You  don't obviously, right ?

So, give it a rest and maybe you will see clearly later !

There are always two sides to every coin, you know ?

There are indeed two sides to every coin, and yes, had people known about Ennis's relationship outside his marriage, they most probably would not have approved, but they would have disapproved whether his relationship outside the marriage was with a man or a woman. Ennis's marriage to Alma was a marriage of convenience, but gay men don't have a monopoly on  marriages of convenience - they happen the world over for many different reasons, and men and women both gay and straight enter into marriages of convenience, and while society does tend to frown on  marriages of convenience, that has nothing to do with radicalism or religion - it's more about the fact that most people believe that the basis for a marriage is that the two people love each other, not that it's simply convenient for one or both of them.

The only mentions of religion in BBM are Ennis and Jack's conversation about the Pentecost, and Alma mentioning they could go to the church social (three, if you count that Ennis and Alma married in a church). To say that BBM forecasts radical Muslims, or any other relgious radicalism is reading things into it that simply aren't there.

Quote
Concerning two fucks, to use your expression, that is there business, and not anybody else !! Surely !

No, that was Jack's expression (last camping trip during his "I wish I knew how to quit you" speech). No-one said it was anyone else's business. My point was that suggesting Ennis would (if he could) marry Jack is stretching things a bit far, when their 20 year relationship, as it happened in the story, was based on a couple of meetings a year as for the many complex reasons Ennis and Jack were never able to live together as a couple, so suggesting that Ennis would marry Jack when he couldn't even accept living with him is not really realistic as the character of Ennis is portrayed.

Quote
Your own sex escapades are your own ! Unless your are like a muslim with legally 4 wives same time and sell  your children to China to be used not as slaves but really into slavery to-day !

There are many things which are unfair in the BM movie which we need to ponder about ! Life then and life to-day and life tomorrow too !!

No one can be that blind to Annie purposes !! Which are varied, and not only for straight disliking gays ! Nor not for lip-service !

There's nothing about multiple marriages in BBM that I can recall, and I doubt very much that AP was trying to make a point about Chinese child slaves either when she wrote BBM.

Quote
straight disliking gays !

"Straight disliking gays"?  I'm pretty sure the BBM story was never intended to be straight v. gay, and if all "straights" dislike "gays", as your statement seems to suggest, why do a large number of straight members here at Bettermost and on other forums watch the film and read the story many times? Why did a large number of straight people see the film and be strongly affected by it, or at least agree with it's sentiments? Why do large sections of society accept gay relationships as just as valid as straight relationships? (and I'm not saying that everyone in society is). You can't over-generalise and say that all straights dislike gays, any more than you can say that all Muslims are terrorists, though I suspect we've not heard the last of that...

 ::)


"No matter how hard you try, You're still in prison, If ya born with wings and you never fly."

Offline Artiste

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2008, 09:44:38 am »
Merci sel !

Of course, may I reply to you.

I myself do not understand all persons every time. With re-reading and thinking, and/or time, later on I come to understand some. No one can understand everything, thank goodness !

At best, imagination as optom says, helps too !!

Make the world go round and happier !!

Au revoir,
hugs!  Let's not forget that we live to imagine and that lives can NOT be otherwise !! Isn't imagination essential ? In Annie story and the BM movie ? And in one's life ?

Offline optom3

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2008, 07:30:47 pm »
I remember Proulx once saying that a story/book is not finished or complete, until it has been read.
Which makes me wonder does the imagined power of BBM extend to us the reader/viewer as well. Certainly for a lot of people, myself included,the film and S.S resonate long after the viewing.
In fact for some people it has been life changing.That surely indicates the power of BBM and how it reaches out beyond the pages,firing our imaginations and causing real life changes.
We learn from the missed opportunities of Ennis and so really are empowered by Brokeback.For us the perhaps, the power is more real and less imagined.

Offline BlissC

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2008, 06:37:53 am »
We learn from the missed opportunities of Ennis and so really are empowered by Brokeback.For us the perhaps, the power is more real and less imagined.

So true. I agree entirely.


"No matter how hard you try, You're still in prison, If ya born with wings and you never fly."

Offline Artiste

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2008, 08:04:55 am »
Merci optom !

Your saying:       In fact for some people it has been life changing.That surely indicates the power of BBM and how it reaches out beyond the pages,firing our imaginations and causing real life changes.
           

......

May I say therefore serve spark our imagination like Ennis and Jack imagined a better life... maybe ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline optom3

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2008, 10:21:19 am »
Merci optom !

Your saying:       In fact for some people it has been life changing.That surely indicates the power of BBM and how it reaches out beyond the pages,firing our imaginations and causing real life changes.
           

......

May I say therefore serve spark our imagination like Ennis and Jack imagined a better life... maybe ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

I think what Proulx says about a story never being finished until it is read is genius. It is on the surface such a simple thing and yet so eloquent.I wonder how many different endings we all have imagined.The possibilities are probably endless.What Ang did so brilliantly was to give the viewer the same power of imagination that the reader has.
So many times for me, a film has been a let down, having read the book.I find I am spoon fed, and allowed no chance to explore different scenarios within my own mind.
Not so with BBM, the film provides nearly as much scope for imagination as does the book.A simple yet perfect example of less is more.
I am truly in awe of the power of BBM to reach out from both the visual ,and written and touch so many people across such an enormous spectrum.For both the reader and viewer there is nothing imagined about the power of BBM.It is all to real.

For Ennis and Jack,I still think there was one summer idyll where the power was real,where they felt themselves invisible and soared,beyond judgement and reality.

 What Proulx and Ang have done is given us ,if we choose to recognise and seize it,far more lasting power than Jack or Ennis had.The only thing that limits us, is our own fear. We can however learn from Ennis's fear and in effect we have are given the benefit of hindsight in advance, what a gift!!!

I have said it many times but the genius of all involved in, the story,screenplay and film is immeasurable.

I can think of no other work, which has literally coerced (albeit gently) so many to rethink so many aspects of life. So no imagined power there,instead a very real and tangible force.At the risk of sounding OTT, Jack died to set free, not just Ennis but also masses of people across all divides. GENIUS.

Offline sel

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 10:23:18 am »
Agree entirely with post above.

I remember Proulx once saying that a story/book is not finished or complete, until it has been read.
Which makes me wonder does the imagined power of BBM extend to us the reader/viewer as well. Certainly for a lot of people, myself included,the film and S.S resonate long after the viewing.
In fact for some people it has been life changing.That surely indicates the power of BBM and how it reaches out beyond the pages,firing our imaginations and causing real life changes.
We learn from the missed opportunities of Ennis and so really are empowered by Brokeback.For us the perhaps, the power is more real and less imagined.

The short story/movie is simply  what we, the readers/viewers, make of it. We have been profoundly  touched by that imagined power. We haven't been to Brokeback Mountain itself, that's why the power is imagined, nevertheless the power has touched us, like a magic wand.
BbM, I swear

Offline Artiste

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Re: The imagined power of BBM ?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 11:22:43 am »
Merci optom, and merci sel !!

I agree too with Annie, and the two of you, and may I add that there are also something like things like facts like, in her story, and the BM movie, that we should NEVER forget ??

And even dwell about ??

Au revoir,
hugs!