Author Topic: Canada's elections - October 14  (Read 25377 times)

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Canada's elections - October 14
« on: September 25, 2008, 12:03:51 am »
Well somebody asked about our elections so I'm including it in this forum.

I'm sure there are questions (there are already a few I intend to answer - to the best of my abilities) so please don't be shy - just jump in with your own answers or questions or comments.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 03:25:18 pm by Sheriff Roland »
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 12:35:36 am »
Heya Sheriff,

Tell us more about what's going on with the Canadian election.  I'd really be fascinated to know more about it.  I'm getting kind of exhausted thinking about the U.S. election (at least sometimes I feel exhausted by it).  And, I'd also really like to hear more about the perception of McCain and Obama in Canadian political circles.  I'm sure it could provide a really interesting perspective.

Ok, First, as I've noted a number of months ago (way before he officially clinched the nomination) Canada was going through an Obama love fest. So strong was this pro-Obama feeling that (as mentioned on that other thread) the at-the-time presumptive Republican nominee (McCain) was radioactive to the reigning Conservative party. All top level cabinet ministers as well as the Prime Minister himself managed to be out of town when McCain was invited to some function or other in our nation's capital.

You see, even your Democrats are more conservative (right wing) than our Conservative party, so Prime Minister Harper did not wish to be seen in any way associated with McCain.

As for our election ...

It appears that there's yet another party that's making headways in this country. In addition to the reigning Conservatives (who are in a minority government situation), the Liberals, the New Democratic Party (NDP), and the Block Quebecois (BQ), there's a new party, the Green Party who earned only 5% of the votes last time but is currently polling at about 12%

During the last elections in 2005, the results (in seats per party) was as follows:

Conservatives: 124
Liberals:          103
BQ:                 51
NDP:               29
Independents    1

The latest polling has

Conservatives 35 to 38%
Liberals          23 to 29%
NDP               17 to 22%
Green              6 to 12%
BQ                   7 to  8%

As I've already said all parties in Canada are more socialist than your Democratic party, but the Conservative party is the only one that embraces your right wing notions about gay marriages, social services and 'smaller governments'. Thay're not talking about their intention of revising the gay marriage, the death penalty, ect. They're running on how the other parties are going to tax people more. (Heck! for about a month before the election was called, we kept hearing misinformation [propaganda] about the green tax the Liberals were going to be introducing.)

All the others are socially 'responsible'. Last time there was a majority Conservative government (during the Reagan years), it was reduced to only 2 seats (out of 308) in the subsequent election.

Already (with 3 [of just 5] weeks left in the campaining) the NDP and the Green have declared their willingness to 'work' with the Liberals, should they come up with the largest number of seats in the next elections. But pundits are saying that it's likely to end up being a majority Conservative government after Oct 14.

And THAT's depressing.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 01:05:24 am »


This is really fascinating Roland.  Thanks! :)

I'm particularly interested to hear you describe U.S. Democrats as being more far right than most politicians in Canada.  But, I guess it makes sense with a more socialist government overall.

I'd be interested if you could tell us more about some of the candidates and political personalities involved.

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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 01:10:50 am »
I love that it's truly multi-party.



Offline David In Indy

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2008, 01:13:59 am »

This is really fascinating Roland.  Thanks! :)

I'm particularly interested to hear you describe U.S. Democrats as being more far right than most politicians in Canada.  But, I guess it makes sense with a more socialist government overall.

I'd be interested if you could tell us more about some of the candidates and political personalities involved.



I remember watching the Canadian election returns come in on C-SPAN (I think) several years ago. It was fascinating. They have more parties up there than we do here. It was very interesting to watch.

Thanks Roland for posting this thread, and please keep us updated. I hope they will air the returns again this year, and if so, I'll be watching them! It was really fun and informative. :)

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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 11:30:41 am »
Latest polls have the Conservatives support slipping (tanking?) in Quebec. And Prime Minister Harper expected to make significant gains in Quebec with his hopes for a majority government. The Bloc Quebecois is the beneficiary of the Conservative's losses.

And it's all about a mere 50 million$ rollback of funding of the arts.

See, Francophones are pretty big on their own culture. 70% of what Francophones watch on TV is made in Canada, while only about 10% of what Anglophones watch is actually made in Canada.

(from Scott Reid at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080924.welxnstrategists0924/BNStory/politics/home )

"In English only, (Harper) unleashed a demagogic rant against all them gala-going, tax-sucking sonsabitches in the fancy-schmancy arts community. Bet it felt very satisfying for a couple seconds. Then reality bit when he was asked to repeat his comments in French. He wisely declined."

So the Conservative majority might be slipping away - with only 2 and a half weeks left before election day.

On the personal level, I held my nose & voted for the Liberal candidate last time, even though he voted against his party's position on gay marriages. When Harper introduced a bill to revisit the decision (within a year after taking power), he again voted the 'wrong' way.

I'm seriously considering voting NDP this time. At least those members always vote the party platform. What's the point of voting for a Liberal if he's really a Conservative. Maybe if he loses, they'll have a real Liberal up next time. (But he's not likely to lose.)
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 07:22:25 pm »
Here's an article chastising Prime Minister Harper & his Conservatives

http://www.huntsvilleforester.com/article/117992

a few highlights:

(Mr. Harper's) disdain for Canadians isn’t new. Ten years ago when he was vice-president of the right-wing National Citizens’ Coalition he addressed a conservative American think-tank. He openly called Canada “A northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.”

His fawning admiration for the U.S. right wing continued: “Your country, and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world.”  Is it really?  The light and inspiration that so thrills Mr. Harper now threatens to bring down the entire global economy.

.....

Mr. Harper disdains us and he tries to mislead us by pandering to people’s fears about violent crime. He promises that a re-elected Tory government will impose adult sentences on offenders as young as 14 years old.... This is a blatant attempt to play to people’s fears about a crime rate that, aside from certain types of crime, has been dropping for 15 years.

......

He continues to tell us that we are becoming “more conservative” as a people. That is simply not true. The Tories are ahead in the polls but a strong majority of Canadians (about 65 per cent) support the centrist Liberals and the further to the left NDP, Greens and Bloc Québécois.


And there's more, condemning Harper's political views that are tied (a little too closely) to the failed (failing?) economic policies that have been in place in the States since Reagan.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 07:32:00 pm »
Tonight, while the American Vice-Presidential debate is happening (oops! your vp debate's tomorow during the english Canadian debate - sorry I got that wrong) we will have our first leader's debate (en francais) including the leaders of all 5 major parties.

Tomorrow, the english debate will be held.

As I've mentioned before, Harper's going to have to do very well tonight as his popularity in Quebec has been on the decline there, and without an additional 10 to 15 seats from Quebec, he's not expected to achieve his hopes for a majority conservative government. Tonight's debate might very well be the more important of the two.

Two weeks to go to election day.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 09:34:45 pm by Sheriff Roland »
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 01:53:03 am »
Wow, so they debate in French and English?

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 06:46:44 am »
Yes of course.

Canada was founded by two European nations and, in spite of the historic restrictions of french speaking immigration (until about 50 years ago), and in spite of the 'island of french in an ocean of english (North America)' - and the assimilation that inevitably ensues, there is still one quarter of the country that speaks french, including 1 million francophone outside of the province of Quebec. The phenomenon is called 'la revanche du berceau' which involved having french families reproduce like rabbits - frequently finding more than 10 kids in each french (at the time called 'Canadian' as opposed to 'British Subjects') families.

Yesterday's debate was geared, for all intents & purposes, to influence the Quebecois voters. Any leader who isn't fluent in both languages, can not be expected to make inroads in Quebec (and this time, it was the Green leader at a disadvantage). No party, in the past 50 years, has managed a majority government without some seats from Quebec.

Yesterday's debate was probably a forrunner of what can be expected in tonight's debate: four left leaning leaders attacking one (governing) conservative party leader.
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