Author Topic: Alma and Jack: one question  (Read 5122 times)

Offline shortfiction

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Alma and Jack: one question
« on: October 29, 2008, 10:41:08 pm »
I'm sure this has been covered, but I couldn't find it with a search.

Alma sees Jack standing by his truck and tells Ennis that his friend could come up and have a cup of coffee.
Ennis, of course, takes off with Jack, and the coffee issue is rendered moot.

Why did she suggest this, I wonder?    Did Alma just think Jack was being rude by not coming up, or was there more to it?  It's hard to believe she would really confront them about what she had seen the day before when they were kissing.   But what else might she have said?   Did she just want to get to know who this fellow was?

What do you think?
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 11:27:50 pm »
I'm sure this has been covered, but I couldn't find it with a search.

Alma sees Jack standing by his truck and tells Ennis that his friend could come up and have a cup of coffee.
Ennis, of course, takes off with Jack, and the coffee issue is rendered moot.

Why did she suggest this, I wonder?    Did Alma just think Jack was being rude by not coming up, or was there more to it?  It's hard to believe she would really confront them about what she had seen the day before when they were kissing.   But what else might she have said?   Did she just want to get to know who this fellow was?

What do you think?

Hi shortfiction!

This is a really good question.  I tend to think that Alma, realizing Ennis is going off with Jack, is making a desperate plea for more attention from Ennis, and maybe subconsciously some alternate explanation for the sense of abandonment she must be feeling.  It looks like she's been up all night considering the reunion she witnessed the day before, and she is likely still in shock, not fully comprehending what it means about their marriage and family yet.  So...trying to buy time?  I can't see her being in an emotional place where she would have the courage to confront them.  It took quite a few years, after their divorce and her marriage to Monroe, for her to really confront Ennis during the Jack Nasty scene.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2008, 12:28:09 am »
I dont think she would have confronted them either.

But there must have been a lot of questions going thru her mind......even that she might have misunderstood what she saw. And then there is also the question she would have, about how come Ennis was so close the this bloke who he had never ever discussed with her. I think she was beginning to see, that she did not know as much about Ennise as she may have thought.

Asking him up for a coffee, was one way she would maybe be able to chat to Jack and find out a bit more about him, also she would know by what Ennis said to him, where they had met maybe. And also to see if there was any interaction between them that might suggest to her the meaning of what she saw from the door.

This was all happening without any forewarning to her. She didn't know Ennis was gonna go off "fishing" with Jack, until he bounced in and told her.

Of course she had to be curious about this Jack "nasty" fella.

I think when Ennis rushed off with him that following day, was the time when Alma knew that this was something she was not going to know about, and she was not gonna like it.
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Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2008, 02:17:44 am »
At first glance, Alma's request does seem strange.  I agree with what's been said here — that she's in shock and general mystification over all she's seen, and is basically trying to 'get some bearings' as to the whole Jack situation.  As Ennis's spouse, she had expected to be part of every facet of his life, including his friends (as in the previous day when she assumed the 3 of them would eat together. Even after seeing the kiss, she gets her purse, almost robotically maintaining the facade even after the shock of what she's seen.)

That was probably the first night Ennis had spent apart from her since before they married.  Then, he breezes in and tells her he'll gone for an even longer, indefinite period.  I think "you know your friend could come up for a cup of coffee" is Alma's exasperated, confused way of handling the abandonment — another way of saying, "I expected to be involved in your emotional life".
 ???   :'(

Offline Katie77

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008, 02:37:48 am »
Yes you are so right there Laura....Alma had expected to be included in the get together with Jack, when she mentioned aobut going to the knife and fork for dinner......and had all ready been told by Ennis that it was just gonna be him and Jack heading out to get drunk.

She must have been so disappointed, not to be included, and then to see the two of them together, well, that just added to the confusion and feelings she was all ready going thru.

No matter how much we love Jack and Ennis, what happened there, was pretty selfish. Ennis seemed to be in a world of his own, really just caught up in the whole thing of him and Jack, like he was in a bit of a trance. Everything from the way he grabbed Jack in the beginning to just heading off for a few days to go fishing, was completely out of character for him. It was probably the only time he let his guard down with that "couldn't care less what anyone thought" kind of attitude. Alma was certainly seeing a side of Ennis that she would never have expected in a million years.

And no wonder Jack, thought all his Christmases had come at once. The way Ennis behaved, would have made Jack think, that Ennis had lost his paranoia and was ready to let the world know what was going on.
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Offline shortfiction

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 03:04:40 pm »
Thanks for the replies....It makes sense that Alma would be disoriented, to say the least. And Ennis was so caught up in seeing Jack again and of course didn't know she'd seen them kissing, so he doesn't think about how she's feeling.
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Offline August7th

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 04:06:22 pm »
No matter how much we love Jack and Ennis, what happened there, was pretty selfish.

And it seems even more "cold" in the short story since Ennis just calls Alma on the phone from the motel to tell her he'll be gone for a few days!

Offline chowhound

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 10:41:15 pm »
As others have suggested, Alma must have found the situation after Jack's arrival very confusing, maybe even threatening, especially when you consider how little she knows about this fella called Jack who has so suddenly entered her life. All she knows is that he has sent her husband a postcard, letting him know that he'll be passing through Riverton on a certain date and suggesting the two of them might get together for a beer. When she asks Ennis who this Jack is, he lies to her. He denies that they "coyboy'ed" together but were, instead, "fishing buddies". (Why this lie? Is Ennis quickly and cleverly establishing a cover story for a possibly prolonged visit from Jack?) However, when she briefly gets to meet Jack, one thing she learns about him is that he is a married man with a young child. This is, at least, something she can cling on to. He is a regular married guy with a young child, much like Ennis and herself.

So I think Alma's invitation for coffee is an attempt to get the world back into a normality she is comfortable with. Clearly, for Alma it's been a bizarre evening and night, with the kissing to start with and then Ennis not returning after they leave for their drinking session. Now Ennis is flying around their apartment, quickly together all he needs to go off on this fishing trip with his buddy.

Alma's invitation for coffee, then, is probably a desperate attempt to bring the world back to what it was like before Jack arrived. If she can only get Jack up to the apartment, then she can find out more about his wife, his young son, maybe even see some photos that many men carry in their wallets of their wife and children. The framework of her world would then at least have the outlines of the sort of world she is familiar with.

Of course, this doesn't happen. All Alma can do is to tearfully watch their departure, unsure of what world she now is in. It will take a long while for her to work that one out.

Offline Gabreya

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 01:44:42 pm »
I agree.

Marge_Innavera

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Re: Alma and Jack: one question
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 02:22:43 pm »
Alma's invitation for coffee, then, is probably a desperate attempt to bring the world back to what it was like before Jack arrived. If she can only get Jack up to the apartment, then she can find out more about his wife, his young son, maybe even see some photos that many men carry in their wallets of their wife and children. The framework of her world would then at least have the outlines of the sort of world she is familiar with.

Of course, this doesn't happen. All Alma can do is to tearfully watch their departure, unsure of what world she now is in. It will take a long while for her to work that one out.

As several people have pointed out during these discussions, Alma doesn't have any background that would prepare her for the moment when she sees them kissing.  For most of the 1960s -- probably all of the decade for people in small towns -- there was very little open discussion of homosexuality and the 'conventional wisdom' about it was that it was a psychological disorder, even a mental illness.  And the general impression was that homosexual men in particular were 'creepy' and generally disfunctional.

I don't believe for a minute that she didn't know what she was seeing -- if you see your spouse kiss anyone like that, same-sex or opposite-sex, you're going to know what you're seeing.  But when we encounter something we're not prepared for, or never thought existed, I think we all try to fit it into what we previously believed.  (There's some "open space between what [we know] and what [we try] to believe.   :) )

Come to think of it, trying to act as if there's been no shift in reality is a common response when a marriage is going sour or when you know that someone close to you has a drinking problem, gambling problem, mental breakdown, etc.  There just seems to be something in the human psyche that makes us act as if the open space between what we know and what we want to believe doesn't exist as long as we can.  One of the most well-known examples might be a couple whose marriage is in trouble having a baby in the hope that this will fix things.