Author Topic: "I figured you were sore from that punch"  (Read 45481 times)

Offline dly64

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2006, 05:25:58 pm »
I agree with that. Ennis's mood darkens from the very moment Jack tells him they will be going down a month early. Ennis was always the practical and dutiful one, but now he lets Jack do all the packing while he just mopes around. On BBM he has found a happiness he's never known before (and will, unfortunately, never know again :'(). By the time they have to leave BBM, he knows that. I think Proulx likened Ennis to a wound-up spring; you might say BBM unwound him, and when they have to go, he is winding up again. So when Jack is hurting him, he hurts him back. But in the end I think his anger has very little to do with Jack at all, or with Jack inadvertently hitting his nose - it's just his own confusion and inability to cope that he projects outward.

I must say that though, thankfully, I'm not the hitting type, I know from personal experience how intense love, once thwarted, can turn into intense anger. If circumstances force you to part from someone you love, you're still stuck with all those feelings that have to go somewhere. One defense mechanism is to turn them into their opposite. I believe psychoanalysts call this reaction-formation.

I like what you are saying here in regards to Ennis being "unwound" and then "rewound". I think that you are dead on regarding the anger issue. However, I think Ennis' punch is one of impulse .... Maybe the right word is not anger. He is outwardly showing anger, but internally his world is spiraling and he doesn't know how to handle all of his feelings. IMO, Ennis understands how to express one emotion ... that is anger. If he resorts to anger, he can escape dealing with the truth.
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ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2006, 05:44:22 pm »
Ennis understands how to express one emotion ... that is anger. If he resorts to anger, he can escape dealing with the truth.

Sure enough.

He's just a bundle of raw energy, isn't he?

Offline Midnight24

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2006, 05:46:15 pm »
Sure enough.

He's just a bundle of raw energy, isn't he?

I agree...yeah I guess in some ways he deals with things in anger. A bundle of raw energy indeed.
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mvansand76

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2006, 07:15:21 am »
I love this discussion... I love ALL the discussions on here!  :P ;D

What I find striking about the punch is that Ennis lets himself be comforted by Jack UNTIL Jack lays his hand on his face in such a way that only a lover will do, soothing, that's EXACTLY the moment when Ennis hits him. Did anybody else notice that? That's exactly what Ennis couldn't take, to feel that caress, because he knew it would be gone in a matter of hours.

Offline stevenedel

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2006, 11:39:55 am »
I love this discussion... I love ALL the discussions on here!  :P ;D

What I find striking about the punch is that Ennis lets himself be comforted by Jack UNTIL Jack lays his hand on his face in such a way that only a lover will do, soothing, that's EXACTLY the moment when Ennis hits him. Did anybody else notice that? That's exactly what Ennis couldn't take, to feel that caress, because he knew it would be gone in a matter of hours.

I think it also shows that while Jack was never truly fighting, Ennis was. So while for Jack it is possible to instantlly resume the tender, caring role when he accidently hits Ennis harder than intended, Ennis can only continue fighting. His anger is real and comes from deep within. I always see that punch as the first, violent expression of the accusation he makes twenty years on: "It's because of you I am like this". He's externalizing his inner conflict.
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2006, 12:07:06 pm »
What I find striking about the punch is that Ennis lets himself be comforted by Jack UNTIL Jack lays his hand on his face in such a way that only a lover will do, soothing, that's EXACTLY the moment when Ennis hits him. Did anybody else notice that? That's exactly what Ennis couldn't take, to feel that caress, because he knew it would be gone in a matter of hours.

Doesn't Jack murmur something like "It's all right" as he wipes Ennis's blood? There's something about Jack's actions that recall the 2nd tent scene (as well as the scene after Ennis encounters the bear).

And that makes Ennis's punch all the more painful. (Emotionally painful, I mean.)

(Which is not to say that I blame Ennis. But I don't blame Jack either.)

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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2006, 12:10:40 pm »
What does Ennis see?  Ennis sees Jack dismantling the home that they built together, that they built by Ennis putting all of his trust into Jack.  And Ennis saw Jack taking it down nonchalantly ... Ennis now sees (to Ennis, at least) Jack betraying the trust that Ennis put into Jack in the second tent scene and thereafter.

...  When he gave his trust to Jack, he gave Jack everything that had been taken away from himself over the past several years.  He put his trust in Jack to lead him and to be there for him.

Now, Jack is leading Ennis away from their home.  Ennis feels that he is, once again, being abandoned.  This is why I believe his punch was deliberate.  I believe Ennis is saying “You son-of-a-bitch… how dare you abandon me when I gave myself to you.”  He subjugated his fear of “queer” by putting his trust in Jack.  Now, he’s lashing out at the object, the maker or doer, of his other great fear – fear of abandonment – and that object is Jack.

This makes perfect sense to me.

What I find striking about the punch is that Ennis lets himself be comforted by Jack UNTIL Jack lays his hand on his face in such a way that only a lover will do, soothing, that's EXACTLY the moment when Ennis hits him. Did anybody else notice that? That's exactly what Ennis couldn't take, to feel that caress, because he knew it would be gone in a matter of hours.

And I also love this, mvansand76.

I think it also shows that while Jack was never truly fighting, Ennis was. So while for Jack it is possible to instantlly resume the tender, caring role when he accidently hits Ennis harder than intended, Ennis can only continue fighting. His anger is real and comes from deep within. I always see that punch as the first, violent expression of the accusation he makes twenty years on: "It's because of you I am like this". He's externalizing his inner conflict.

And I also agree with this, stevenedel.

Does anyone see these views as contradictory? I don't. I think they all work together. I agree that Ennis felt hurt and betrayed. But the punch wasn't t premeditated. Under other circumstances, hurt as he was, he wouldn't have punched.

But being comforted by Jack sends him over the edge. It reminds him of how much he's losing. But also, it throws Jack's apparent betrayal into even greater relief, because Jack's gentleness in this moment echoes Jack's gentleness in TS2. Now Ennis is even more hurt and confused. How can Jack be so loving one minute (TS2, and now), and yet blithely walk away? What did it all mean?

It's interesting that, years later, by the lake, Jack threatens more explicitly to walk away ("I did, ONCE"). And once again, the contrast between that potential leaving and his gentleness in trying to comfort Ennis sends Ennis over the edge.

Mel, your post appeared as I was writing this, and looks like you're saying pretty much the same thing about the parallels between TS2 and the pre-punch comforting. Good point about Jack saying "s'alright" both times.

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2006, 12:21:54 pm »
Mel, your post appeared as I was writing this, and looks like you're saying pretty much the same thing about the parallels between TS2 and the pre-punch comforting. Good point about Jack saying "s'alright" both times.

Except that I see the parallels between the pre-punch comforting and the 2nd tent scene as showing that Ennis was pulling away from comfort because the tenderness set off all those confused alarm bells inside him.  And that the tenderness set Ennis off in a way that it hadn't before, because Ennis suddenly had to make the transition between the mountain (with its mixture of isolation and companionship that allowed him be himself for once) and "real life".

(And I actually hear Ennis's response to "I did, once" in an entirely different way from you: I read/heard Ennis's response as a reaction to Jack bringing up the whole living together thing once again, not to the implication that the dream of the cow-and-calf operation was something of the past.)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2006, 12:39:25 pm »
Except that I see the parallels between the pre-punch comforting and the 2nd tent scene as showing that Ennis was pulling away from comfort because the tenderness set off all those confused alarm bells inside him.  And that the tenderness set Ennis off in a way that it hadn't before,

Well, if I understand this correctly, I don't disagree, or at least not entirely. I also think the tenderness sets off confused alarm bells.

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because Ennis suddenly had to make the transition between the mountain (with its mixture of isolation and companionship that allowed him be himself for once) and "real life".

And I don't disagree with this either. I think he's really upset about the prospect of the transition. What I don't agree with is those who say (and Mel, I don't know if you're in this group or not) that he punches Jack primarily because he's using anger to suppress his feelings of love. I think he punches because he's confused and hurt  ... AND upset about having to abruptly give up the happiness he'd found on the mountain and go back to his unhappy real life.

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(And I actually hear Ennis's response to "I did, once" in an entirely different way from you: I read/heard Ennis's response as a reaction to Jack bringing up the whole living together thing once again, not to the implication that the dream of the cow-and-calf operation was something of the past.)

Here we partly disagree. I think Ennis issues the Mexico threat because Jack is bringing up the whole living together thing again, which puts Ennis on the defensive and he wants to turn it around and put Jack on the defensive. However, I do think the larger fear he's confronting in this scene is the prospect of losing Jack.

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "I figured you were sore from that punch"
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2006, 01:02:18 pm »
I think he's really upset about the prospect of the transition. What I don't agree with is those who say (and Mel, I don't know if you're in this group or not) that he punches Jack primarily because he's using anger to suppress his feelings of love. I think he punches because he's confused and hurt  ... AND upset about having to abruptly give up the happiness he'd found on the mountain and go back to his unhappy real life.

I think the punch is the result of all of those things... but I think it's mostly the result of experiencing all sorts of contradictory feelings. (I mostly take issue with the argument that Ennis is primarily reacting to Jack's inappropriately nonchalant manner while taking down the tent. Yeah, that might be part of it, but I think that Ennis's response has more to do with whatever complicated and confusing stuff is going on in Ennis's head and heart, and not so much with exactly what Jack does or doesn't do.  I think that almost everything Ennis does is, in large part, a response to stuff going on inside Ennis. Well, except for purely physical reactions, like catching keys. Ennis's physical reactions are so fast and uncomplicated, compared to his emotional reactions. So maybe I'm contradicting myself and not making any sense.)

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Here we partly disagree. I think Ennis issues the Mexico threat because Jack is bringing up the whole living together thing again, which puts Ennis on the defensive and he wants to turn it around and put Jack on the defensive. However, I do think the larger fear he's confronting in this scene is the prospect of losing Jack.

Tell you what, I think that Ennis is capable of holding a lot of contradictory emotions inside himself. And  it may be that Ennis lashes out the most when the contradictions become too much to take. So the Mexico threat may be the result of fear of losing Jack AND not wanting to deal with that living together thing again AND the tacit admission that Jack is gay and, by extension, Ennis is also gay. Contradictory? Yes. But Ennis is a human tangle of contradictions; that's a large part of why I find him so fascinating.

(And how many times have I used the word "contradict" in this post? Aw, shoot, I'm not going to try to phrase it better.)
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