Author Topic: What Scene Could have been left out  (Read 12270 times)

Offline David

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2006, 04:16:51 pm »
**Scratches head**

I didn't vote, because I think all these scenes are necessary, or at least relevant, to the plot & story & character arc.

If I had to point to one scene I really think should be removed, it'd be the "pissant /used to ride bulls" scene. I still can't see what that one is supposed to bring to the telling of the tale at all.

Ah!   a subtle but important scene.     This just reinforces that Jack always tries hard but never gets any respect.    Even his wife at this point doesn't defend him after hearing that comment.      She could have said something like : "Who? Jack?  oh he has won several prizes, don't let his low key demeanor fool ya".      She couldn't tell the man :"Watch yer mouth, that's my husband and he has won contests".  This guy could be a big shot regular customer of hers.   And you don't run off a guy who buys $100,000 combines.   

But as I said, it was to show that Jack was unappreciated in so many ways....

Poor Jack....<sniff sniff>   :'( 

moremojo

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 04:21:11 pm »
**Scratches head**

I didn't vote, because I think all these scenes are necessary, or at least relevant, to the plot & story & character arc.

If I had to point to one scene I really think should be removed, it'd be the "pissant /used to ride bulls" scene. I still can't see what that one is supposed to bring to the telling of the tale at all.
I'd have to agree with your first statement, despite my earlier grudging vote for the Fireworks scene. As for the "used to ride bulls" scene, I think that was supposed to convey how little respect Jack earned from the folks in his community. For reasons that are unfathomable to me, Jack, in spite of his tender, nurturing nature, seems to inspire love in no one save Ennis, Lureen, and Mrs. Twist.

(David just beat me to the punch, but I'm a gonna submit my post anyways). ;D

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2006, 04:26:05 pm »
I'd ditch the fireworks scene.  While very cinematic, we didn't need to know what year it was from that scene, since the rodeo scene immediately after also states the year.  Both scenes were a mistake, considering that building the scene where Jack met Lureen - also not part of the story - messed up the timeline anyway and left open the possibility Lureen was pregnant at the time she met Jack.

What Del said about the fireworks scene! (And the rest of the comment is pretty good, too!)

For me the Thanksgiving Dinner at the Twists was a close second--actually, it was kind of difficult to choose.

Some of you folks might get an argument over ditching the Cassie subplot. From posts elsewhere, I've developed a new respect for the importance of that subplot in Ennis's character development, especially its denoument--his reaction after she tells him, "Girls don't fall in love with fun."
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2006, 04:34:09 pm »
What Del said about the fireworks scene! (And the rest of the comment is pretty good, too!)
Is anyone else reminded in the fireworks scene of the film Billy Jack? I know I was, but I'm not sure if anyone else has cited that. I wonder if the scene may in part be an hommage to that earlier film. If so, its function in the narrative may well be secondary to the iconic/cinematic flavor that it evokes.

Offline David

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2006, 04:40:01 pm »
For me the Thanksgiving Dinner at the Twists was a close second--actually, it was kind of difficult to choose.

NOOOO!      I love the Thanksgiving scene at the Twists!

This shows us how hard Jack had it at home.   And the point where he finally stands up to L.D. also provided some comic relief to the audience in an otherwise tense drama.

But I love the way Jack looked frustrated and anxious even after he yells at L.D.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2006, 04:58:01 pm »
But I love the way Jack looked frustrated and anxious even after he yells at L.D.

NO doubt.  I've said before here how I think the way the blood rises in Jake's (yes, Jake's) neck and face during that scene, and then the way his hands are shaking and his breathing is choked with emotion when he goes to stand up and start carving is a thing of beauty.  He just nailed that scene.  And I've seen it and heard it for real in my husband after he let my stepmother have it when she *so* richly deserved it once when Will was eight weeks old and he'd had it up to his eyeballs with her constant criticism of our parenting (and years of her propagation of negativity about everything else we ever did before then).  Ed was just stunned by it when he saw it, and reacted perfectly to Lureen's little smile of satisfaction just the way I expected him to, because he's seen that for real, too.

About a minute later, he said 'ignorant ass...' and chuckled under his breath, as if he were thinking 'wish I'd used that one.'
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2006, 05:28:03 pm »
Quote
As for the "used to ride bulls" scene, I think that was supposed to convey how little respect Jack earned from the folks in his community. For reasons that are unfathomable to me, Jack, in spite of his tender, nurturing nature, seems to inspire love in no one save Ennis, Lureen, and Mrs. Twist.

and

Quote
This just reinforces that Jack always tries hard but never gets any respect.    (  )  But as I said, it was to show that Jack was unappreciated in so many ways....

I'm sure  you are both right in this. But I still don't see what the film achieves in showing us that Jack is not respected and appreciated.  For one, I find it hard to believe that someone as affable and charming as Jack wasn't well- liked in his community. And surely his plight in loving and longing for Ennis wouldn't have been any less poignant or difficult if he was respected by people in the local community? Quite possibly, and on the contrary, showing him as a well-liked person would also have meant opportunities to showcase how empty all of that was to him, when he couldn't have the one thing he really wanted in his life....



Offline David

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2006, 05:49:17 pm »
I think it goes back to some of Jacks other statements.    "I can't please my old man no way no how".       Jack is full of hope and dreams.  But like his father says, "Like much of the things Jack says never come to pass".      Jack is always being shot down by Ennis too.     As even Jake Gyllenhaal said about his character: "What Jack is to me is someone that tries real hard even if he fails all the time."

The "Pissant" scene also shows how Lureen is passive about Jack too.

Offline David

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2006, 05:51:38 pm »
I've said before here how I think the way the blood rises in Jake's (yes, Jake's) neck and face during that scene, and then the way his hands are shaking and his breathing is choked with emotion when he goes to stand up and start carving is a thing of beauty.  He just nailed that scene. 

Barb!  I love ya!     You understand exactly what I see in Jake/Jack there.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: What Scene Could have been left out
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2006, 07:04:25 pm »

Barb!  I love ya!     You understand exactly what I see in Jake/Jack there.


Oh, I love the Twist Thanksgiving scene, and I love the way both Jake and Anne play it. (Love that, "Daddy. [Pause]  DADDY." It's actually my favorite Lureen scene.) But I had to set some standard for picking an answer.

We could probably have gotten by without seeing Old Man Twist spit into his cup (eeew) but I interpreted that choice as not just what I might have called the shot of Old Man Twist spitting into his cup, but the whole scene of him telling Ennis about the ranch neighbor, etc., which is essential to the plot.

Maybe "dancing with Lashawn" could have been left out, but I looked at that in light of Jack's line to Ennis about having something going with a ranch foreman's wife.

But the Twist Thanksgiving scene was clearly invented just to balance the uber-essential "Ennis and Alma Thanksgiving confrontation," and I don't think it really does much for the plot. That was the basis for my decision.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.