Life and this movie are messy

[BlissC]

Wonder why Aguirre keeps trying to give Jack the opportunity to perform Christlike miracles (the lightning, Uncle Harold), and Jack keeps disavowing them?

Call it a crazy hunch if you like, as I've nothing to back it up with, but I've always wondered if Aguirre sees something of a younger version of himself, perhaps when he had no power, in Jack? He'd employed Jack the previous year, so he couldn't have been that displeased with Jack to hire him again in '63.

[optom3]

Call it a crazy hunch if you like, as I've nothing to back it up with, but I've always wondered if Aguirre sees something of a younger version of himself, perhaps when he had no power, in Jack? He'd employed Jack the previous year, so he couldn't have been that displeased with Jack to hire him again in '63.

I have always had a niggling suspicion about Aguirre.As you point out he had previously hired Jack,so must not have disliked him that much.Also in the S.S he watches Jack and Ennis "for ten minutes,one day witing untill they had buttoned up their jeans,waiting untill Ennis rode back to the sheep,before bringing the message"
Several things bother me about this.
Aguirre has obviously watched them having sex,which seems odd for a totally straight guy.He then waits to get Jack on his own,and finally there is no reprimand for Jack.
Even if we take away the gay aspect,surely if you had just witnessed 2 employees doing anything other than what they were paid for,would you not at least reprimand them both,maybe even fire them.He comes over as such a hard man that this seems at odds with how he reacts.
I cannot believe that anything Proulx writes is without significance.So what am I missing here.Does Aguirre actually have leanings towards,homosexuality,and in particular Jack.Is that why he watches them fully and lets them stay a little longer.
Does he then become jealous and decide to curtail their freedom,bringing them down early.There is something that does not quite gell.I would have thought that any completely straight man,would watch,see what was happening and then cease watching p.d.q.
Aguirre almost seems on some levels to mirror OMT in that he pays lip service to the idea of 2 men being together,but does not fully embrace it and consequently,feels the need to wound and hurt.In my experience those who are completely happy in their own skin are less judgemental.
That would make him ill at ease with his own sexuality,maybe it is all a little too close for comfort.
I am willing to be shot down for this.Happy for another explanation.As I say the whole episode bothered me from the very first reading.The words literally jumped off the page at me.Why just wait watching the whole thing,and then wait to get Jack on his own?
I have asked a few straight men who are not homophobes,including my husband,and not one of them would willingly watch 2 men having full blown sex,if they had the option to turn away.

[mouk]

Very interesting points, Optom, and they make sense. AP says in Story to Screenplay that she was told by an old sheep ranger that 'he always sent up two men to tend the sheep so if they get lonesome they can poke each other'. She adds that 'From that perspective Aguirre, the hiring man, would have winked and said nothing'

It is quite possible that Aguirre had been a shepherd in his younger days and had done exactly the same thing - but just as a one shot deal. This may have brought back happy memories. Also it was probably not the first time in his long career that his employees poked each other. Perhaps this is why he wants them to sleep separately, so they are not too distracted to do the job properly. It seems to me that the Basque is also winking with his 'it's too early in the summer' - he has an amused smile, a kind of 'here we go again' smile.

Aguirre is a businessman, he needs his herd to be well fed and in good shape, he can't just bring the sheep down because he is angry with the boys. Perhaps it was difficult to find people willing to do this kind of unglamorous  job. Or perhaps it was difficult to find people to replace them when the season was so advanced already. So I think the weather really is the reason why he makes them go down early.

IMO the reason he refuses a job to Jack the following year is because his negligence has caused, once again, heavy losses. He does not have the excuse of a thunderstorm this time (well it was quite another type of thunderstorm that struck him ).  And he wants to tell him that he is no dupe, he knows exactly what happened up there.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I agree with those points, Mouk, plus remember they were both 19 years old. I know it is a stereotype, but sometimes "kids" don't have exactly the best job performance, so keeping them seperate might ensure more work getting done.

[BlissC]

I have always had a niggling suspicion about Aguirre.As you point out he had previously hired Jack,so must not have disliked him that much.Also in the S.S he watches Jack and Ennis "for ten minutes,one day witing untill they had buttoned up their jeans,waiting untill Ennis rode back to the sheep,before bringing the message"
Several things bother me about this.
Aguirre has obviously watched them having sex,which seems odd for a totally straight guy.He then waits to get Jack on his own,and finally there is no reprimand for Jack.
Even if we take away the gay aspect,surely if you had just witnessed 2 employees doing anything other than what they were paid for,would you not at least reprimand them both,maybe even fire them.He comes over as such a hard man that this seems at odds with how he reacts.
I cannot believe that anything Proulx writes is without significance.So what am I missing here.Does Aguirre actually have leanings towards,homosexuality,and in particular Jack.Is that why he watches them fully and lets them stay a little longer.
Does he then become jealous and decide to curtail their freedom,bringing them down early.There is something that does not quite gell.I would have thought that any completely straight man,would watch,see what was happening and then cease watching p.d.q.
Aguirre almost seems on some levels to mirror OMT in that he pays lip service to the idea of 2 men being together,but does not fully embrace it and consequently,feels the need to wound and hurt.In my experience those who are completely happy in their own skin are less judgemental.
That would make him ill at ease with his own sexuality,maybe it is all a little too close for comfort.
I am willing to be shot down for this.Happy for another explanation.As I say the whole episode bothered me from the very first reading.The words literally jumped off the page at me.Why just wait watching the whole thing,and then wait to get Jack on his own?
I have asked a few straight men who are not homophobes,including my husband,and not one of them would willingly watch 2 men having full blown sex,if they had the option to turn away.

I've thought very much the same things myself Fiona. There's just something that niggles me about Aguirre, and as Mouk pointed out I noticed recently that line in Story to Screenplay too. Mouk makes some very valid points. It almost seems that both Aguirre and the Basque were complicit in the whole situation.

[optom3]

I've thought very much the same things myself Fiona. There's just something that niggles me about Aguirre, and as Mouk pointed out I noticed recently that line in Story to Screenplay too. Mouk makes some very valid points. It almost seems that both Aguirre and the Basque were complicit in the whole situation.

Thank goodness it is not just me.Niggle is a very good way to describe it.I just always had a funny feeling that I was missing something,but could not put my finger on it. It still bothers me and I am not sure why.Curious and disconcerting.

[BlissC]

Curious and disconcerting.

Spot on. "Disconcerting" - yup, that's the feeling.

[Front-Ranger]

About Aguirre, I was noticing in the story how he has "wavy hair...parted down the middle" just like the Red Sea (only his is the color of cigarette ash). Also, in his trailer are venetian blinds (separating the window into light and dark) which are hanging askew so that they "admit a triangle of white light." In other words, a mountain-shaped light. And his hand gestures as he gives instructions to the two boys, moves in the light with a chopping motion, as if he's cutting the mountain in two. He decrees that Ennis, the camp tender, should stay in the light and tend the fire, while Jack is on the QT, staying with the sheep and having no fire, in the dark.

About the Basque, he is bandy-legged and he also instructs Ennis in how to pack the mules, lashing them up: "ring-lashed with double diamonds." This is the wedding ceremony is it not? There are rings, bands, AND diamonds. Is the Basque the ring bearer? And then the Basque leaves him with a warning, not to eat from the fruit of the tree of Life, er, soup, because "them boxes a soup are real bad to pack." Not hard to pack, BAD to pack. In other words, they are a kind of Pandora's box, them boxes a soup.

[BlissC]

About Aguirre, I was noticing in the story how he has "wavy hair...parted down the middle" just like the Red Sea (only his is the color of cigarette ash). Also, in his trailer are venetian blinds (separating the window into light and dark) which are hanging askew so that they "admit a triangle of white light." In other words, a mountain-shaped light.

Yep, there's that God/religious thing again, and the triangular symbolism again. Actually it's just struck me that the triangle theme continues through the rest of the story as well, but not just in the visual cues....Ennis - Jack - Alma: triangle....Ennis - Jack - Lureen: triangle....Ennis - Jack - Randall...

About the Basque, he is bandy-legged and he also instructs Ennis in how to pack the mules, lashing them up: "ring-lashed with double diamonds." This is the wedding ceremony is it not? There are rings AND diamonds. Is the Basque the ring bearer? And then the Basque leaves him with a warning, not to eat from the fruit of the tree of Life, er, soup, because "them boxes a soup are real bad to pack." Not hard to pack, BAD to pack. In other words, they are a kind of Pandora's box, them boxes a soup.

So true agin - back to the wedding ceremony and the whole garden of Eden idea - and all just in a few lines in the story! The whole story amazes me, because just when you think you've spotted everything, something crops up that's glaringly obvious when you look at it again.

That Pandora's box analogy's a good one as well, because once you've opened Pandora's box, you can't get it back inside. Thinking back to the story of Pandora's box though, dimly remembered from my school days, I seem to remember too though that there was one thing that Pandora was quick enough to close it again to keep inside - Hope. In the Pandora's box there's Jack's hopes and dreams for the sweet life.

[serious crayons]

And then the Basque leaves him with a warning, not to eat from the fruit of the tree of Life, er, soup, because "them boxes a soup are real bad to pack." Not hard to pack, BAD to pack. In other words, they are a kind of Pandora's box, them boxes a soup.

Ooohh, good point! And Ennis orders them anyway ... 

It's interesting how much their food choices revolve around what's against the rules (soup, sheep, elk) and what's approved and safe, but boring (beans).