Author Topic: In the New Yorker...  (Read 2278963 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3610 on: September 07, 2024, 07:04:33 pm »
It's interesting how he has his shirt unbuttoned so the dog tags show. I've heard he was in the Navy, but the memoir seems to indicate he didn't serve. People wore dog tags for several different reasons. Maybe they were his father's. At the time, you could get dog tags printed with the names of MIAs/POWs. We were all very much following our friends and boyfriends who were serving. And there were lots of protests. I was tear-gassed a couple of times. The student union and the computer building were set on fire. One time we just cancelled all the classes. Refused to go to class. My father and I disagreed and argued about it.

A few years ago my son-in-law said something that really hurt. He said the Vietnam protests were because guys didn't want to get drafted. I kept my tongue but wanted to say, "hey buddy, I was there. I know why students protested the Vietnam War and you don't."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3611 on: September 08, 2024, 03:52:10 pm »
Say whut?  ???

People who were born during boomer times (1946-1964) but on the tail end. We were too young to go to Woodstock, too young to get teargassed or, for the most part, even participate in anti-War protests. Many of us don't have pensions, because our prime earning years mostly happened after pensions were widely replaced by 401(k)s. So older boomers are the wealthiest retirees in history, while many, many younger boomers are on track to run out of money in old age.

Wikipedia lists our members as Bill Gates, Madonna, Barack Obama, Tom Cruise and Kamala Harris (none of them likely to run out of money in old age) as well as Michael Jackson, Prince and Princes Di.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones




Offline serious crayons

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3612 on: September 08, 2024, 04:09:06 pm »
A few years ago my son-in-law said something that really hurt. He said the Vietnam protests were because guys didn't want to get drafted. I kept my tongue but wanted to say, "hey buddy, I was there. I know why students protested the Vietnam War and you don't."

My son said the same thing. It didn't hurt me as much, probably because I wasn't there myself. And he had a point -- the prospect of being drafted certainly lent urgency to some protests. But it's still inaccurate, and I didn't hold my tongue.

He thinks Millennials (and maybe Gen. Z) are more political and protest much more vigorously. I said Boomers were opposed to the war for humanitarian reasons, too -- all that pointless death. And they were protesting more than just the war; also racial justice and other things.

He's also thinking of how Boomer-age voters are more likely to support Trump and Republicans in general than younger people are. Polls usually show that he's right. My suspicion is that there were always conservative Boomers; they just weren't as visible back then. But '60s protesters and related cultural transformations were extremely visible. And after all, it's not like the people in crowds at Trump rallies are all over 60 -- there are lots of younger people.

On the other hand, I've heard of presumably hip Boomers who've unexpectedly come out as conservative. Like Eric Clapton. That one is completely disappointing, because I've always liked to argue that the best Republicans can come up with for musicians are Ted Nugent and Kid Rock.

And then there's the old adage, "If you're conservative at 20 you have no heart; if you're liberal at 60 you have no brain." Obviously I don't agree with that but there's probably something to it.



 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3613 on: September 08, 2024, 09:22:05 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones

This is still the first time I've ever heard the term. It's also the first time I've ever heard of Jonathan Pontell.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3614 on: September 08, 2024, 09:26:52 pm »
And then there's the old adage, "If you're conservative at 20 you have no heart; if you're liberal at 60 you have no brain." Obviously I don't agree with that but there's probably something to it.

If you're a Log Cabin Republican you're a complete idiot.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3615 on: September 08, 2024, 09:35:49 pm »
There were many ways to avoid getting drafted. One of the easiest was to enroll in college. If you were responsible for your parents or family like Pacino was, that was another way. You could register as a conscientious objector. You could go to Canada for a while. Or you could get a doctor to write a letter for you. You could say you're gay. No, the protests were not because of the draft.

One reason I heard many times is that it's not sufficient for all these men to lose their lives or be traumatized just to protect American corporate oil interests in Vietnam and SE Asia.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3616 on: September 22, 2024, 06:00:16 pm »
If you're a Log Cabin Republican you're a complete idiot.

True! I think Bill may have been, in spirit at least.



Offline serious crayons

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3617 on: September 22, 2024, 06:19:49 pm »
There were many ways to avoid getting drafted. One of the easiest was to enroll in college. If you were responsible for your parents or family like Pacino was, that was another way. You could register as a conscientious objector. You could go to Canada for a while. Or you could get a doctor to write a letter for you. You could say you're gay. No, the protests were not because of the draft.

The writer Tim O'Brien ("The Things They Carried" and "Going After Cacciato," both about Vietnam) started to go to Canada -- he's from Minnesota and IIRC his dad was willing to drive him -- but then couldn't bring himself to do it. Many of those things would have been hard to do for some people, including college. Draftees skewed lower-income because higher-income young men could go to college (also would be more likely to have friendly relationships with doctors, connections who could pull strings, etc.) You'd think anybody would have said they were gay (I don't know how the Army would prove otherwise) but I suppose the social consequences back then were too high for many.

I didn't mean to imply that the personal desire not to go to Vietnam oneself is the only reason anybody ever picked up a protest sign. But I don't see how the prospect of dying or being seriously injured at a young age, or at the very least enduring some extremely unpleasant experiences, wouldn't have lent a bit of extra urgency. Not only for people who might themselves get drafted but for their loved ones. I couldn't imagine seeing my sons go off to war, so if there'd been a draft when they were that age I'd be protesting on their behalf. I also think protesters held the idea that the war was unjust and stupid in general, even if they had nothing personal at stake.

The Project 2025 plan calls for all public-school students to go into some sort of service. Private-school students would be excluded.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #3618 on: September 22, 2024, 07:11:32 pm »
The Project 2025 plan calls for all public-school students to go into some sort of service. Private-school students would be excluded.

That's part of their plan to kill public education. Of course, it's also racist.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.