Author Topic: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)  (Read 7993 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 07:21:11 am »
I agree. In the movie there´s never any doubt that Ennis doesn´t know, in my mind.
I find it more vague in the ss though.

Yup, agreed with Monika and Elle as far as movie-Ennis is concerned.
I was asking specifically about story-Ennis, guess I didn't make myself very clear. I edited the question in the OP accordingly.

Another point that might back my theory that story-Ennis knew (or at least was very aware of the possibility) about Alma seeing the kiss is the fact that storyEnnis is less paranoid than movieEnnis, as we've stated often before.


Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 03:08:35 pm »
Yup, agreed with Monika and Elle as far as movie-Ennis is concerned.
I was asking specifically about story-Ennis, guess I didn't make myself very clear. I edited the question in the OP accordingly.



I got it, but just got a bit carried away as always :)

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 03:16:43 pm »
Thinking of the scene from Alma´s perspective...I think that the Ennis she saw kissing Jack was a man she hardly recognised; passionate, reckless, unrestrained.
I don´t think she ever got to see that part of Ennis and what she saw that day was a glimpse of something totaly unfamiliar to her.

In another thread we discussed Jack being the wind or the sun, and Ennis the earth. I wonder where Alma fits into all of that. Maybe she is the moon. Dependable, pale bleak and while the sun scorches the moon soothes. And when the sun is up, we don't see the moon and vice versa.


Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 03:31:56 pm »
Thinking of the scene from Alma´s perspective...I think that the Ennis she saw kissing Jack was a man she hardly recognised; passionate, reckless, unrestrained.
I don´t think she ever got to see that part of Ennis and what she saw that day was a glimpse of something totaly unfamiliar to her.


Interesting, but I think Alma had seen Ennis like that before. The tobaggan slide romping, the sex scene after he puts the girls to bed, for example. What I believe Alma saw was the man she used to know...with his vitality being directed to someone other than herself. That was her horror and shock and disappointment.

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 03:42:24 pm »
Interesting, but I think Alma had seen Ennis like that before. The tobaggan slide romping, the sex scene after he puts the girls to bed, for example. What I believe Alma saw was the man she used to know...with his vitality being directed to someone other than herself. That was her horror and shock and disappointment.


I just can´t imagining Ennis shoving Alma up against the wall like he did with Jack.




Or perhaps I just don´t want to  ;D





It´s always interesting to hear how we all interpret the story so differently. Love these discussions

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2009, 03:48:50 pm »
Interesting point, Herr. I think you are right. In the sex scene with Alma, the story describes in some detail how he worked to get her satisfied before flipping her over on the bed. It sounds like he wasn't too gentle.

Another thing I like about the Jack meets Alma scene is that Jack is described as "trembling like a run-out horse." This just after Ennis had called him "little darling" like he did his horses (and daughters). Later on, Ennis tells Jack he's sleeping on his feet like a horse. If Jack reminds Ennis of his beloved creatures, his affection for him would have increased even more.

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Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2009, 03:50:56 pm »
Interesting point, Herr. I think you are right. In the sex scene with Alma, the story describes in some detail how he worked to get her satisfied before flipping her over on the bed. It sounds like he wasn't too gentle.


But is that really passion? Sounds to me like having sex with Alma was just another sort of masturbation for him.

 

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2009, 04:15:30 pm »
It is hard to tell from the story (a little clearer in the movie) but we and Ennis knew that his heart really wasn't in it. Alma would have been clueless though, especially since she was presumably a virgin when she married Ennis.

We also can't conclude anything from the sledding scene because that didn't appear in the story. But I think Ang Lee was communicating subliminally by setting the scene in snowy winter that Ennis had put his real passions in the deep freeze. However, I know that the scene was originally supposed to be set in a parking lot in summer, so that is neither here nor there.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 06:22:39 pm »
From the film, we also never see how ennis and cassie actually empassioned themselves. but, from the type of gal Cassie appeared to be and the extent to which see seemed to pursue ennis, he probably was pretty aggressive with her too.

So, I think ennis had it in him and exhibited strongly passionate behavior on occasion with certain people. Alma knew he was a bucking bronco, so to speak, and her shock was seeing it displaced to someone else.