Author Topic: Annie Proulx's still pissed...  (Read 79902 times)

Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2009, 03:19:38 pm »
Annie Proulx is not the only author to view fan fic in a less than gracious light.

I seem to remmber hearing that Anne Rice is even more against fan fic, and that a number of "Vampire" fan fic authors have had legal action taken against them.


Bottom line is that Ennis Del Mar, Jack Twist, Brokeback Mountain, and all associated characters are hers legally.

As someone who has tried his hand at fan fic (an incomplete story that has pretty much dried up) I can respect her opinion of someone reworking characters she owns the rights to.


I say that with all due respect to slash authors....I've read a number of stories and enjoyed them.

A lot of people have some misconceptions about the copyright limits and rights of authors.  A copyright is a limited monopoly over a created work for a set period of time.  Presently the author's lifetime plus 70 years.  Then it becomes public domain.  However, this monopoly on the use, marketing, and derivative works of the author is limited by the legal concept known as "fair use."  Because the statutory penalty for willful use and copying from an original work is so high ($100,000 per incident, plus financial damages if applicable) there aren't a lot of tests of fair use in the world of fanfiction, and most fanfiction contains disclaimers that tend to reassure the author that the use of their work was for personal enjoyment and not a threat of commercial competition.  However, fair use is a limit on the copyright holder, and includes parody, commentary, criticism, and transformational use.  The most famous case of finding "fair use" and defeat of a copyright claim was in the case of the Margaret Mitchell estate (author of "Gone With the Wind") vs. Houghton-Mifflin and Alice Randall, author of a parody work entitled "The Wind Done Gone."    The settlement, announced May 9, 2002 will allow publisher Houghton Mifflin Co. to continue to distribute The Wind Done Gone under the label "unauthorized parody." The Boston publisher also agreed to make a financial contribution to Morehouse College in Atlanta at the request of the Mitchell estate.  (http://www.rcfp.org/news/2002/0529suntru.html)

Randall DID use characters and situations found in "Gone With the Wind" but was able to demonstrate to the court that the purpose of the work was essentially parody, which is considered fair use.  There is a legal opinion rendered by a copyright lawyer I posted a couple of years back claiming that much of slash fan fiction that explores the sexual relationships of characters from existing stories, movies or shows could be defended as fair use under the "criticism and commentary" clause of Fair Use.  Until fan fiction writers get a lot more bold and have a lot more money, there will not be many tests of this approach in the annals of copyright law, and people like me will just rewrite their stories when they get threatened with a lawsuit by Annie Proulx's deep pockets lawyer in New York.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2009, 03:22:23 pm »
I think you perhaps misunderstand the nature of fan fiction. Fan fiction is not mainly about copying AP or to follow her intentions regarding BBM. Fan fiction is about being inspired by certain characters and wanting to explore them further - and the nature of these explorations take on various forms depending on the writers various interests.

I hope AP changes her attitude towards fan fiction

not bloody likely.  You should have read the letter her lawyer sent me.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Monika

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2009, 03:26:10 pm »
not bloody likely.  You should have read the letter her lawyer sent me.
It would have scared the s**t out of me to get a letter like that

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2009, 03:32:47 pm »
Randall DID use characters and situations found in "Gone With the Wind" but was able to demonstrate to the court that the purpose of the work was essentially parody, which is considered fair use.  There is a legal opinion rendered by a copyright lawyer I posted a couple of years back claiming that much of slash fan fiction that explores the sexual relationships of characters from existing stories, movies or shows could be defended as fair use under the "criticism and commentary" clause of Fair Use.  Until fan fiction writers get a lot more bold and have a lot more money, there will not be many tests of this approach in the annals of copyright law, and people like me will just rewrite their stories when they get threatened with a lawsuit by Annie Proulx's deep pockets lawyer in New York.


I'm not so sure that most of the slash authors consider their work "parodies".


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2009, 03:35:47 pm »
It would have scared the s**t out of me to get a letter like that

It was an intellectual property lawyer at NBC, and the woman's letter told me that Proulx's (and Focus Features') lawyers eyes were all over the Brokeback fan community looking for people to target.  I had expected by mid-2007, after 4 authors were contacted, that the trend would continue and we would hear of more.  Maybe there were more, and the large number of unfinished stories and complete defections from the fanfic fandom came in part as a result, but no one is talking, really.  The other three I know of got so scared they deleted their journals and as far as I know left the fandom completely.  I talked to the lawyer, told her that my intent was reworking my stories and explained the plot, and she agreed that if I took the names and details out it would satisfy them and they would drop it.  But then again, I'm used to dealing with lawyers and such.  And I did get a little informal help from a New York lawyer who confirmed the legitimacy of the original cease and desist and advised me a bit.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Monika

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2009, 03:44:00 pm »
It was an intellectual property lawyer at NBC, and the woman's letter told me that Proulx's (and Focus Features') lawyers eyes were all over the Brokeback fan community looking for people to target.  I had expected by mid-2007, after 4 authors were contacted, that the trend would continue and we would hear of more.  Maybe there were more, and the large number of unfinished stories and complete defections from the fanfic fandom came in part as a result, but no one is talking, really.  The other three I know of got so scared they deleted their journals and as far as I know left the fandom completely.  I talked to the lawyer, told her that my intent was reworking my stories and explained the plot, and she agreed that if I took the names and details out it would satisfy them and they would drop it.  But then again, I'm used to dealing with lawyers and such.  And I did get a little informal help from a New York lawyer who confirmed the legitimacy of the original cease and desist and advised me a bit.
It seems to me, as though you handled the situation very well. And good to see that you kept on writing your stories

Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2009, 03:57:46 pm »

I'm not so sure that most of the slash authors consider their work "parodies".

Probably not.  But I agree with that lawyer that there is a credible defense of the erotic stories that they are social commentary and serve as criticism.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Mikaela

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2009, 04:08:36 pm »
Her work is loved by her fans, but it's not to everybody's taste (including mine, to be honest).

Nor mine. I diligently trudged my way all through the Shipping News, and it was the most depressing and disconcerting tale. I personally fear ever ending up with as bleak an outlook on humankind and our lives, prospects and personalities as that book conveyed to me. And as for "Close Range" - if I hadn't known exactly which short story ended it, and had just started reading from the beginning, I'd never have gotten to the end and would never have read Brokeback.

In a way I don't wonder that Annie Proulx comes across as crabby and huffy in the few interviews I've read. Having an active reflective mind occupied with creating and conveying the bleak fictional characters and ditto storylines she gives the reading world, must take a toll. I can only speak for myself, but I would be permanently depressed and robbed of all my humour, such as it is, if it were me.

Brokeback has a strange grace and light to it, compared to the other stories of hers I've read. And I'm pretty sure I won't read any more.

I do still read Brokeback fanfics though. I do admit to somewhat naively hoping for a happy ending for all, inclusive of Jack and Ennis.

I still marvel at any person clueless enough to  actually send her their happy-ending stories and telling her "this is how it should have ended". She's got every right to be royally PO'd at that.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2009, 06:42:34 pm »
Probably not.  But I agree with that lawyer that there is a credible defense of the erotic stories that they are social commentary and serve as criticism.

 ::)  Only a lawyer. ... :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2009, 06:56:45 pm »
Her work is loved by her fans, but it's not to everybody's taste (including mine, to be honest).

I love her "voice." I've never read The Shipping News, but in her Wyoming short stories I think she comes closer than anyone I've ever read to getting down on paper the "sound" of a story being told out loud by a story-teller.

And some of the character names she comes up with, like Queeda Dorgan in "Them Old Cowboy Songs." And think of actually entitling a story "Tits Up in a Ditch."  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.