Author Topic: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity  (Read 25827 times)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2010, 10:38:29 am »
I don't even think there's anything wrong with being angry or expressing anger sometimes (especially in this case where the anger is directed at an intstitution or entity rather than an individual).   As long as it isn't hurting someone else, I think well-directed anger can lead to productive change sometimes.
well, I see a difference between having a right to be angry or justified in being angry on the one hand, and expressing that anger in an inappropriate context. I feel expressing her political objections to the practices of the RC church within the context of discussion her Xianity is inappropriate. If she is uncomfortable with the church, she should have the grace to simply leave and find a different path of salvation. It is anger that clouds our relationship with God and hides His plan from us, and because of her well-deserved high regard as a novelist (I too am a fan) her statements will adversely affect others.

I think that Rice needs to learn about the Xian concept of grace.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2010, 10:39:49 am »
Ideally, following Christ is all about forgiving and forgetting offenses.  Hence Bill's comment about anger.
thank you, that is part of my definition of grace (within the Xian concept)

Offline Monika

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2010, 10:47:00 am »
well, I see a difference between having a right to be angry or justified in being angry on the one hand, and expressing that anger in an inappropriate context. I feel expressing her political objections to the practices of the RC church within the context of discussion her Xianity is inappropriate. If she is uncomfortable with the church, she should have the grace to simply leave and find a different path of salvation. It is anger that clouds our relationship with God and hides His plan from us, and because of her well-deserved high regard as a novelist (I too am a fan) her statements will adversely affect others.

I think that Rice needs to learn about the Xian concept of grace.


as a non-christian I really can´t get into any of the christian arguments, but as a human being I know it´s pretty healthy to be angry at times.
And if she wishes to express angriness towards an organisation (the Chatolic church) that is anti-gay, I think that is pretty healthy too.
I would not equate grace with shutting your mouth when you see something that is wrong.

And possibly it will affects others, and maybe that is what she wants to do.

It sounds as you know how to find the salvation you are looking for, and that is all good. But maybe other christians have found different paths.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2010, 11:21:03 am »


as a non-christian I really can´t get into any of the christian arguments, but as a human being I know it´s pretty healthy to be angry at times.
And if she wishes to express angriness towards an organisation (the Chatolic church) that is anti-gay, I think that is pretty healthy too.
I would not equate grace with shutting your mouth when you see something that is wrong.

And possibly it will affects others, and maybe that is what she wants to do.

It sounds as you know how to find the salvation you are looking for, and that is all good. But maybe other christians have found different paths.
I would never want anyone to remain silent, but it is inappropriate to express the type of political anger she is expressing within the context of the church. She simply needs to find another path for herself and pray for the church.


Offline louisev

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2010, 12:35:53 pm »
she sounds angry to me, I could be wrong, but that was my impression. and it seems that she herself is interjecting politics into religion in a way that the author of the commentary piece about her is objecting to in the Republican party. so I would add hypocritical to biased in regard to the author of the op ed piece.

it wasn't Anne Rice who mixed politics with religion: it was the RC Church spending tens of millions, along with their Mormon allies, which funded the Proposition 8 campaign and have poured their tithings into anti-gay legislative action.  She is merely condemning their actions.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2010, 12:54:04 pm »
Sure I am familiar with Pitts, some of his columns occasionally appear in the local Startlegram. And yes its an Op-Ed piece and yes its biased, and yes its also partisan and hypocritical, and no it isn't fair to compare a Dinosaur media journalist with pretensions of "evenhandedness" to someone like Limbaugh who is openly biased and eschews the MSM. Now Rachael Madcow is an excellent example of a mainstream journalist who has become extremely partisan and biased, a bit like Pitts.

People like Pitts and Madcow want to have their cake and eat it too, sorry but you can't be regarded both as a professional journalist and turn out biased partisan hit pieces, or in the case of Pitts make it his mission to promote Obama back in 2007 / 2008. 

I don't understand your point here, or why you don't distinguish between straight-news journalists and op-ed pundits, or why you find it necessary to name-call in so many of your posts.

All I know is, it shouldn't be surprising or dismaying to see people who are paid to express their opinions, express their opinions. It's fine to disagree with some or all of the opinions, but absurd to object to them doing their jobs. None of the people you mentioned is expected to be unbiased.



Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2010, 03:30:30 pm »
it wasn't Anne Rice who mixed politics with religion: it was the RC Church spending tens of millions, along with their Mormon allies, which funded the Proposition 8 campaign and have poured their tithings into anti-gay legislative action.  She is merely condemning their actions.
actually I condemn both, I think that the mission of the church should not be political, whether it is my church SBC or the LDS or RC - all need to concentrate on the healing ministry of Christ. That said, Rice is forsaking grace by turning a personal religious conviction into a political football.

as point of clarification, if individual Catholics, or Mormons, or SBC members choose to pour their tithings into a political action that is different than the churches themselves funding political operations. But, just as I would prefer that Rice seek grace thru a personal private relationship with the Lord, I also would prefer that individual Xians NOT use their tithings for political operations. (and they won't get an individual deduction if their tithings go into a political campaign)

Offline Monika

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2010, 03:39:46 pm »
actually I condemn both, I think that the mission of the church should not be political, whether it is my church SBC or the LDS or RC - all need to concentrate on the healing ministry of Christ. That said, Rice is forsaking grace by turning a personal religious conviction into a political football.

as point of clarification, if individual Catholics, or Mormons, or SBC members choose to pour their tithings into a political action that is different than the churches themselves funding political operations. But, just as I would prefer that Rice seek grace thru a personal private relationship with the Lord, I also would prefer that individual Xians NOT use their tithings for political operations. (and they won't get an individual deduction if their tithings go into a political campaign)

The church is and has been very active and not some silent bystander. The chatolic church for example has spread disinformation regarding condoms in parts of Africa, with the purpose to stop people from using them.
The consequences of this, I´m sure you can guess.

I too would wish that the church was simply about "a personal private relationship with god" but it´s not. It´s very political and has been throughout history.

And this doesn´t seem to be about Rice´s personal relationship with her god at all, but it´s rather about her relationship with the church. It´s the church that she critizises - not the religion itself.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2010, 03:50:31 pm »
I too would wish that the church was simply about "a personal private relationship with god" but it´s not. It´s very political and has been throughout history.
And this doesn´t seem to beabout Rice´s personal relationship with her god at all, but it´s rather about her relationship with the church. It´s the church that she critizises - not the religion itself.

sure, I understand that all Xian churches - in particular the RC denom - have been involved, sometimes deeply, in politics. I don't try to defend their actions in Africa or in supporting Prop 8 in CA. However, as individual Xians we don't have to allow the church organization any control over our lives, we can have a personal relationship with Christ. Rice, being a very public person, makes her private disagreement with the RC church a public football when she chooses to publicly separate from them over political issues. Hence, Dinosaur Media opportunists such as the Op-Ed columnist sited above, take advantage of her disagreement to make a political point, unrelated to either Rice of the RC church. If Rice didn't understand that this would happen then she is remarkably naive, but I tend to think that she intended her disagreement to fuel anti-GOP propaganda. 

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2010, 04:01:15 pm »
I don't understand your point here, or why you don't distinguish between straight-news journalists and op-ed pundits, or why you find it necessary to name-call in so many of your posts.
All I know is, it shouldn't be surprising or dismaying to see people who are paid to express their opinions, express their opinions. It's fine to disagree with some or all of the opinions, but absurd to object to them doing their jobs. None of the people you mentioned is expected to be unbiased.
in this case I am calling the kettle beige because it is beige - as for name calling, lets look at Pitts Op-Ed piece as primer on how to name call. rather clever of him until you realize that he is using a disagreement between Rice and her former church to make pedestrian political point.

1) there is no such creature as an Op-Ed journalist - if a commentator chooses to use newpaper columns to voice his or her agenda then they are not journalists - period.
2) Pitts is an Op-Ed columnist, just like dozens of others who either chose to mask their partisanship or openly advertise it. Pitts is hypocritical about his partisanship, Krauthammer for example is not.
3) As a Rush 24 / 7 member since the late 1990's, I most definitely have no problem with people being paid to express their opinions - I participate in the honest end of that cycle. Pitts is a part of the dishonest end centered on the MSM.