Author Topic: Alma's feelings for Ennis  (Read 14504 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Alma's feelings for Ennis
« on: October 02, 2006, 07:26:24 am »
This keeps bothering me for a while now: What are Alma's feelings for Ennis?

Marrying, raising children, leading a family life was what Alma was supposed to do. Maybe it was not her big dream of life, but I think Alma was not raised to have big dreams (like Ennis - and Jack for that matter, but he had them anyhow).

Did Alma have dreams other than having a husband and children when she was a teenager, before she married Ennis? I don't think so.
I think she was successfully trained to want this (the family life) and actually DID want it.
For this purpose she needed a man, willing to marry her. God knows how they met and fell for each other at least enough to get engaged (any ideas, other from them being introduced and pushed by their families?).

I do think she loved him.
I do think she was loyal and devoted.
I do think she made efforts to keep this marriage going.
I know it was a shock for her to see our boys together.
I do think her whole world was falling apart during that night when Ennis and Jack were in the Siesta.

But I do not believe that, at any time of their realtionship, Ennis was everything to her. The one love you desperately long for, the one person in the world you are meant for, the one person you can't live without.

I think it was the whole package she wanted: husband + kids + a nice place to call home + enough money to keep ahead of the bills = a 'normal' family life. And Ennis seemed to be the man who could give this to her. But somehow I have the feeling, she would have taken another man, too - if only he was likeable enough and promised her the said package.

This is supported by the story: how undramatic their marriage came to an end. No real trouble, just widening water, "...what am I doing, hanging around with him, divorced Ennis and married the Riverton grocer".

Doesn't sound like she was a heartbroken woman, destoyed by the realization that her husband didn't love her like he should.

Phew, I rambled a lot here, just let my thoughts flow. Bottom line is: I think Alma loved Ennis, but I do not think she loved him so deeply that he meant the world to her.

mvansand76

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 08:14:36 am »
I think she was expecting from Ennis what every woman should be able to expect from the man she marries, that he would love her and be faithful to her. When both those things did not turn out to be true, she put up her defenses and went for the next big thing, Monroe.

I do believe Alma loved Ennis very much, mostly because he was so emotionally unavailable (same reason why Cassie fell in love I guess, he was such an enigma and so manly and the combination can be really attractive) and she really hung on to the signs of affection from Ennis through the years. I think, though, as soon as she had been directly confronted with Ennis and where Ennis' heart really lay, she put up a barrier and emotionally distanced herself from him to avoid being hurt.

Do I make sense?  ;)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 10:05:40 am »
I've never known exactly how to interpret her expression at the Thanksgiving table, but I've never seen it as all that fond. To me, she looks kind of peevish, though trying to maintain a cordial veneer. If I had to guess, I would say she is uncomfortable that her new husband, with his vibrator electric knife, appears so wimpy compared to her ex, with his rugged bronc-riding tale. And the girls so obviously adore their dad, again no doubt in contrast to their feelings for their step-dad. The weird look that Ennis gives Alma after telling the story adds to my impression that there is tension in the room.

As for Alma's feelings while they were still married, I think she loved Ennis. But I don't think the love was particularly passionate, because she just wasn't a passionate person. Nor did she really expect passion from him. As Chrissi says, her expectations from life were pretty simple: husband, kids, place in town she can fix up real nice. Once she had those things, she didn't look much beyond them. That's why she didn't realize anything was amiss with Ennis until she saw how different he was with Jack.


Offline fernly

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 10:42:50 am »
Chrissi - great idea for a thread! I've wondered too how they got together, how much 'initiative', conversational and otherwise, Alma showed in pursuing the relationship.

Quote
The weird look that Ennis gives Alma after telling the story adds to my impression that there is tension in the room.
That looks reminds me of the one Ennis gives Jack when he asks him about everybody knowing. I wonder if maybe he thought that saddle bronc story was a step or two too close to Jack who he had told Alma "rodeos mostly."

Far as Alma's expression - goadra and Katherine, can I agree with both of you?
 I can easily believe that she was experiencing a lot of different emotions.
Resentful that the girls were his angels and she never was (recalls the moment in the story when Ennis tells Jack that he loves his two little girls to pieces and says nothing about how he feels about Alma, and her mouth twitches)/
rexperiencing for a moment the old feeling of being in love with him and feeling happy when he is/
angry about Jack/
pleased that she's making another life for herself.
 But keeping it all under control best she can, trying to be nice, and then Ennis makes that comment about once burned, and Alma has her 'lake scene', by a sink full of dirty dishes.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 12:55:38 am by fernly »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 10:46:26 am »
Alma has her 'lake scene', by a sink full of dirty dishes.

Good observation, Fern! I never noticed that as being another instance of Alma and Jack contrasted via tap water vs. outdoor water.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 10:59:59 am »
I also didn't see Alma as fuming or sulking. She has her "yeah, sure enough" ironic smile on, and she also seems to me to be pretty hormonal (being pregnant at the time). Interesting that she gives that strange smile at the table just after drinking from a glass of milk.
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Marge_Innavera

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 12:35:29 pm »
I've never known exactly how to interpret her expression at the Thanksgiving table, but I've never seen it as all that fond. To me, she looks kind of peevish, though trying to maintain a cordial veneer. If I had to guess, I would say she is uncomfortable that her new husband, with his vibrator electric knife, appears so wimpy compared to her ex, with his rugged bronc-riding tale.

An impression I've often gotten from that is that Alma is one of those unfortunate people who always wants something else other than what she has.  'I want this handsome, mysterious guy', never mind 'I want this nice dependable good provider who's obviosly always been in love with me' no that's not it, 'I want...."  In love or not, someone like this is not going to ever be satisfied. Maybe that's a curse her own family background has left her with.

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 12:55:19 pm »
Good points about mixed feelings, and about Alma wanting what she didn't have at the moment. And about Alma being hormonal at Thanksgiving. ;D I wonder if she would have had her "lake scene" if she hadn't been pregnant?

In the movie, Alma looks pretty infatuated with Ennis at first -- at the wedding, and sledding, and at the drive-in. She's so young, though, and it seems like she doesn't know Ennis very well... though maybe nobody except Jack knows Ennis very well.

I've got a question about Alma's line "I'd have them if you'd support them." How much of that do you think represents the way Alma really feels, and how much is trying to hurt Ennis? I know she has another baby (or more than one?) with Monroe, so maybe she means it. But, on the other hand, she's getting pretty bitter toward Ennis, and he's just told her that the only reason to have sex with her is to make babies.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 01:11:57 pm »
I've got a question about Alma's line "I'd have them if you'd support them." How much of that do you think represents the way Alma really feels, and how much is trying to hurt Ennis? I know she has another baby (or more than one?) with Monroe, so maybe she means it. But, on the other hand, she's getting pretty bitter toward Ennis, and he's just told her that the only reason to have sex with her is to make babies.

I don't know if she's deliberately trying to hurt Ennis -- in the movie she says it kind of hesitantly, and in the story she says it under her breath -- but tell you what, I've never quite understood what the deal is with Ennis' income and Alma's frustration over it. He's not in a very lucrative field, he quits jobs to be with Jack, and she says they're behind on the bills. On the other hand, he seems responsible and hard working; it's not like he's drinking up his paychecks while the girls go hungry. They have two incomes. So why are they so broke? Why does Alma hold Ennis so responsible for their money problems (beyond it just being the way people thought about marital roles in those days, I mean)?

Between that, and her comments about the apartment in town and the electric-company job, Alma seems quite money-conscious. That's one reason I think she's better off with Monroe.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Alma's feelings for Ennis
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 02:18:01 pm »
Great idea for a thread.  :)

I think Alma loved/loves Ennis. I think she loved him more than she was able to articulate to herself, even. She's not better at articulating her real emotions than Ennis is, seems to me, which makes sense given their probably similar backgroud although she apparently had more of an intact family, growing up.

I wouldn't be surprised if the two of them met at some sort of Church Social thing, actually.... I can imagine Ennis's sister dragging him along before she moves to Casper.

But anyway, I think as a down-to-earth person not given to flings of fancy or elaborate fantasies, Alma probably defined love to herself as wanting a small slice of that "American dream; husband, kids, a home - and constantly improving their material conditions. More "nice things". Financial security. Not by leaps and bounds, but little by little. A husband to cuddle up to, like in the car when she's expecting Junior.

She's still living that dream, and thinking she's got that love, when they "move to town"; - but at that point she has no reason - not enough psychological understanding, probably no reason for comparison - to see that something is missing from hers and Ennis's marriage. Then reality hits hard..... I do think she truly loves Ennis. I think that's why she clings to him for as long as she does, - even though Monroe (in the film, at least) seems to be around and available, even from before J&E's  Reunion.

I don't think she'd actually have minded their status quo financial situation so much if she'd known herself to be loved by Ennis.... As she matured as a person, she'd have managed to distinguish better between love as a deepfelt human emotion and love as some sort of woman's magazine tale of pretty curtains. But she wasn't given that chance of developing insight with Ennis. 

I think the "I'd have them if you'd support them" is her way of saying "I'd have them if you'd really loved me". And I do believe she wanted more kids - as far as I can understand, she and Monroe has at least two - the one she's carrying on Thanksgiving and the "new baby" Junior refers to around two years later.

I'm not even sure she's not a passionate person - but she's certainly been thorughly conditioned not to seem to be. And Ennis's behaviour when he's with her doesn't exactly encourage the release of big time passion on her part, either. Nor do I think her life with Monroe opens up for that. And so it seems a lot of pent-up passion gets directed into resentment and even bitterness in her, for I think I do see quite some amount of passion gone awry in the Thanksgiving scenes. I think she still loves Ennis at that point, though she channels it into deep hurt and resentment..... and though she has by then completely given up on himand gone with the available alternative solution. Which did give her a husband, a nice home, kids, improving financial situation.....but which also, I suspect, is teaching her the difference between *that* and love.

I have very much sympathy for Alma and the hard life lessons she learns. I feel very sorry for her. And for Lureen. One of the reasons that I like the film so much is that it does look at the wives with very sympathetic even compassionate eyes.