Author Topic: Please help me understand these  (Read 11867 times)

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 02:01:16 pm »
4. When Ennis introduces Jack to Alma, i saw some pictures that Jack is standing in the kitchen. But in the movie that i saw Jack stays in the entrance hallway where the light is dim (he's in the dark again) and he keeps hiding his face below his hat - which is understandable in view of his excitement, probably can hardly breath and all. His eyes look so big from below that hat, his posture is somewhat bowed - he looks so suspicious like some kind of a criminal. If i where Alma i would be quite worried about Ennis being with this strange guy.... And after her "knowing" i would ask myself "THIS is supposed to be the guy whom Ennis is seeing??".
What do you think about Jack at this moment?
I think that scene was pretty well done. In the story, Jack was described as "trembling like a run-out horse" and Ennis could feel the floorboards shaking. They both didn't want to step into the kitchen, Alma's territory. Jake did make him look suspicious and he is suspicious. . .he is stealing Alma's husband right from under her nose! It's an awkward scene for all concerned. Ennis is also portrayed well by Heath with a sly smile and boldly staring at her. I'm sure their thoughts did not include consideration of Alma's feelings, just wanting to get out of there and on to their tryst.
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Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 08:35:46 pm »
"If he does not force his attention on what the dream means, the memory might stoke the day, rewarm that old..."

Mm... I still don't get it... Because Ennis "lets a panel of the dream slide forward" - means he is forcing his attention to it, isn't he? So, the consequence of forcing his attention to it would be (as per above) preventing the memory from stoking the day and rewarm old feelings, right? Means, he does not want the memory to stoke his day and those feelings to be rewarmed?

Sorry for being picky... For me it's an important part telling us how Ennis is feeling about Jack and the fact that he's forever gone (of which we don't have much in the story) and it just does not make sense...


I think that scene was pretty well done. In the story, Jack was described as "trembling like a run-out horse" and Ennis could feel the floorboards shaking. They both didn't want to step into the kitchen, Alma's territory. Jake did make him look suspicious and he is suspicious. . .he is stealing Alma's husband right from under her nose! It's an awkward scene for all concerned. Ennis is also portrayed well by Heath with a sly smile and boldly staring at her. I'm sure their thoughts did not include consideration of Alma's feelings, just wanting to get out of there and on to their tryst.

I guess you're right about all that. I guess it's what makes the scene realistic, huh. I just feel bad for Jack that he has now one more person (Alma) who has a bad impression of him and thinks badly of him. This was pointed out at different other threads, too. There are not many people who like/love Jack and comfort him, he's such a lonely soul and does not deserve it at all  :'(.

You know, if i were Alma, i would be so happy for Ennis after seeing him with Jack (in that state). I would invite them both for coffee / dinner / and what else and send them off into the mountains myself, giving a note "Don't worry about me and the girls, have fun boys! love, Alma;D Then we all could move to whatever ranch with cow and calf operation they want and live as a big happy family!!! I mean, maybe Alma's reaction to the whole thing was also a big factor on how it all turned out in the end. Well, not putting the blame on anybody here. It was just my very first reaction right from the start.

Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 08:29:59 pm »
Friends, i'm starving here................ Anybody, please?  :(

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 10:32:14 pm »
Mm... I still don't get it... Because Ennis "lets a panel of the dream slide forward" - means he is forcing his attention to it, isn't he? So, the consequence of forcing his attention to it would be (as per above) preventing the memory from stoking the day and rewarm old feelings, right? Means, he does not want the memory to stoke his day and those feelings to be rewarmed?
I interpreted it as him being passive and just letting the dream play out.

I guess you're right about all that. I guess it's what makes the scene realistic, huh. I just feel bad for Jack that he has now one more person (Alma) who has a bad impression of him and thinks badly of him. This was pointed out at different other threads, too. There are not many people who like/love Jack and comfort him, he's such a lonely soul and does not deserve it at all  :'(.

You know, if i were Alma, i would be so happy for Ennis after seeing him with Jack (in that state). I would invite them both for coffee / dinner / and what else and send them off into the mountains myself, giving a note "Don't worry about me and the girls, have fun boys! love, Alma;D Then we all could move to whatever ranch with cow and calf operation they want and live as a big happy family!!! I mean, maybe Alma's reaction to the whole thing was also a big factor on how it all turned out in the end. Well, not putting the blame on anybody here. It was just my very first reaction right from the start.

I like to think that I would do the same! But, Alma is a poor young inexperienced ill-educated woman in a backwards state. The best she can do is to turn a blind eye to Jack and Ennis. Remember how she cried, hugging Alma Jr. and waving while watching the truck disappear in a cloud of dust?
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Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 01:10:59 am »
Hi Front-Ranger!

Thank you very much for your reply!

Regarding the dream - i still don't understand it. For me the sentence remains to be contradictory... But since there are only two of us here i don't know whether we can come any further on that (?)....

Regarding Jack being shot "in shadows" - what is your take on the motel scene? Why does Jack look like some kind of a puppet, far from a living being?...
Sure, you are not the one who shot this movie, but i would love to hear your associations with this!

Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 01:18:59 am »
After Jack says "What we're gonna do now?" he doesn't move, he doesn't blink, i swear he doesn't even breath!! Can it be really a puppet in this shot?? Jake G not available? Maybe the scene was re-shot later? What IS this???

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 10:36:33 am »

Regarding Jack being shot "in shadows" - what is your take on the motel scene? Why does Jack look like some kind of a puppet, far from a living being?...
Sure, you are not the one who shot this movie, but i would love to hear your associations with this!

The first time I saw the Siesta Motel scene, I was surprised to see them in such an extreme closeup, but when I thought about it later, I decided it works that way. If it had shown more of their bodies, the focus would have been different when the scene was all about how they were trying to wrap their heads around this new development in their lives. Over the long four years each had realized the powerful hold they had on one another and now in the Siesta Motel it was all coming to a decision point. Jack is behind Ennis with his arm around him, which mirrors the dozy embrace later when Ennis was behind Jack. There is a blue light (assuming it is coming from a window) on Jack, while there is a warm light on Ennis. This correspond to the colors associated with each character. When Jack "pops the question" (What are we gonna do now?) to Ennis, he waits with bated breath for the answer. Ennis spurns him, unfortunately, and chooses the path of meeting, "Every once in a while, in the middle of nowhere." Jack's preference is for a sweet life with a little cow and calf operation so he is bitterly disappointed, but resigned to his life with Ennis, with Ennis keeping him on a short leash.
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Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2017, 09:08:33 pm »
Hi F-R! Hope you had a nice weekend ;)

Thanks for your take on the motel scene, especially the lighting. I have not noticed that, but it makes sense!
I am not interested in their bodies  :D, but i wondered why Jack looks so scary in this shot. Why he don't even moves... I mean Jack is extremely happy to be reunited with Ennis and asks him about what they will do about it now. He's full of hope, yes. I can imagine he is in the same state as back on Brokeback when Aguire told them to come back - he is just convinced that it will all work out and they will be together. I suppose he does not have any idea of what kind of odds there might ever / even be. So, Ennis' answer must come as a surprise and shock. I just cannot think otherwise. But Jack's reaction is practically non-existent! No body movement, no head movement, not even blinking or opening the eyes or even smoking - nothing! Even when Ennis / Heath takes a draw at his cigarette his head moves and pushes Jack's / Jake's slightly, but even then - no reaction at all...

I mean, this is an important moment, right? [Please note Jack was *not* talking about the cow and calf operation yet.] Jack full of hope and expectation, but Ennis "shots his airplane down" (as in the story) and it is for me totally unnatural that there is absolutely no reaction from Jack.

Is this just a imperfection in an otherwise perfect movie?

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2017, 11:43:13 am »
"stoke the day"

Woke up thinking about this phrase. Thank you, BBM-v, for reviving it. I'm gonna go out and stoke the day!!
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Offline BBM_victim

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Re: Please help me understand these
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 04:36:16 am »
Hey F-R!

Thanks for thinking of me  ;D
How did it go? Have you figured it out? It still gives me headaches.