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BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum  |  The World Beyond BetterMost  |  The Culture Tent (Moderator: Sheriff Roland)  |  Topic: Man in an Orange Shirt 0 Residents and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Man in an Orange Shirt  (Read 8730 times)
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« on: September 02, 2017, 04:28:53 am »

Very well done. Parallels to BBM. Recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97Gu7MBUS4

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/07/31/man-orange-shirt-heart-rending-account-gay-life-forties-britain/
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/aug/01/man-in-an-orange-shirt-review-heartbreaking-happiness-denied
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/entries/6a5ba29a-76c3-4a85-9af2-e8f77da7a96d

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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 06:06:03 am »



Man In An Orange Shirt
[Michael's Letter]

Published on Jul 29, 2017

Daniel Hall


Michael's unsent love letter (to Thomas).
Music: Dan Jones. Voice: Oliver Jackson-Cohen.
Words: Patrick Gale.


A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season











Man In An Orange Shirt
[Trailer - BBC Two]

Published on Jul 20, 2017


Two love stories, sixty years apart, charting the challenges
and huge change to gay lives from WW2 to present.
The first screen drama from best-selling novelist Patrick Gale,
starring Oliver Jackson-Cohen and Vanessa Redgrave



A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season






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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 06:28:15 am »


Forbidden Love: the drama looks at two gay lovers who had to conceal their feelings for each other BBC / Kudos / Nick Briggs

https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/man-in-an-orange-shirt-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-bbc-drama-starring-vanessa-redgrave-a3600626.html
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 10:09:43 am »

I'll make this my Labor Day weekend entertainment this evening! Thanks, John and Vincent!

p.s. You don't talk much, but you get your point across, V!
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 01:55:50 pm »

Love to discuss MIAOS - once more people have a chance to view. Smiley  V.
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 03:45:48 pm »

This movie was on our main station Sunday evening movie a few weeks ago. I rarely watch movies on TV but fortunately looked at the guide and saw the gay reference. Even so I set my DVD, thinking I would not last the full time but did stay the course. So I can watch it again sometime. Generally advertisements have me turning the TV off and going to bed. I prefer to watch a movie in the theatre.

Apparently it was in 2 parts in the UK but it was shown as a continuous movie here. I was very emotional at the end almost as much as BBM.
I guess I fall between the 2 times. Growing up, gay sex was illegal and there were arrests but generally it was just a fine. However, as a state school teacher, it would have meant instant dismissal for me. I remember arriving in the UK in 1974 and thinking "I am legal". It was not legal in NSW, Australia until 1982.
So, I have some understanding of Michael and Thomas, although there was no way I would have risked propositioning a man other than in the clubs which we knew were paying the police bribes. I never went to a cottage or beat. Magazine adverts were the only other way to meet.
On the advice of psychiatrists I became engaged but fortunately broke it off. I have met a number of men who married in those times as the respectable thing to do, with varying results.

However I also understand the grandson. When I did accept there was no cure and met other gay men for the first time (in my late 20's early 30's in  the 1970's). I went mad. No cell phones in those days but there were back rooms and sometimes I went  home with or brought a guy home. My only long time relationship (all of 18 months) I met in a back room and had sex before I brought him home.

Another movie I saw a week or so ago at the NZ International Film festival was called "100 Men" Having been made in NZ, it may not get much airing elsewhere although the producer lived and worked most of his life in London. It was a great movie as it was a history of gay life by going through 100 men (unlike me he must have written names in his diary) with whom he had sex. He interviews some of them. He is now partnered  but their relationship is not exclusive   My brief relationship was not so lucky as, while at first my partner said he did not mind, in the end he broke the relationship because I could not give up anonymous back room sex.
HIV/AIDS cured me of that obsession but I have never found anther way to meet gay men socially.

I plan to see "God's Own Country" this afternoon. It started in the theatres last Thursday but I am afraid it will not stay long. As I wrote, I was very disappointed in "Call me by my name" so I hope I am not disappointed this afternoon.
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 05:51:38 pm »










"I've been storing them in his absence
rather than leave them with that creature in SoHo.









I write him letters in soft pencil on one side of cartridge paper
so he can draw on the other.








You should take this one. It's only a study.
He must have sold the finished portrait.









I call it 'Man in an orange shirt,' but it's you, isn't it?"







"Yes."










I have always, always loved Frances de la Tour, and as Mrs. March, Thomas's mother, she is wonderful.

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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 06:08:29 pm »

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 06:39:18 pm »

He looks a lot like Jake.
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 07:01:10 pm »

He looks a lot like Jake.



Yes,  sometimes I think so too.













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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 10:04:57 pm »

Two gay men, grandfather and grandson in two episode dramas, more than 60 years apart--in the 1940s/50's, the young wife of the first gay man, and today, the same woman, now aged grandmother (Vanessa Redgrave) of the second gay man, cannot accept, cannot forgive, either of them.

Shown in the UK late July/early August 2017 MAN IN AN ORANGE SHIRT will not be seen in the U.S. (PBS Masterpiece) until June 2018--

However--

Someone has cleverly posted both  episodes on Youtube, putting Spanish subtitles (on the bottom of the screen, and NOT obtrusively) as a dodge--
if you are interested, see the episodes QUICKLY before they are pulled down!









Man In An Orange Shirt

part 1 in english with Spanish subtitles/capitulo 1 sub espańol
Published on August 8, 2017

Two love stories, sixty years apart, charting the challenges
and huge change to gay lives from WW2 to present.
The first screen drama from best-selling novelist Patrick Gale,
starring Oliver Jackson-Cohen and James McArdle


A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season















Man In An Orange Shirt

part 2 in english with Spanish subtitles/capitulo 2 sub espańol
Published on August 11, 2017

Two love stories, sixty years apart, charting the challenges
and huge change to gay lives from WW2 to present.
The first screen drama from best-selling novelist Patrick Gale,
starring Julian Morris, David Gyasi
and Vanessa Redgrave


A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season











FYI, I think it's better to see them in the correct order, episode 1 in the 40s/50s. then episode 2--even though I actually preferred episode 2.

Also FYI--Vanessa Redgrave's father, famous actor Michael Redgrave, of course, was gay, and Vanessa's husband, director Tony Richardson, was also gay.  The writer of the story from the film was taken, Patrick Gale, is the son of a gay man, and he is himself gay (married to Aidan Hicks, m. 2008)

Also Also FYI--in episode 2 watch out for Julian Sands of A Room with a View  (1985)

Final FYI--grandfather (Oliver Jackson-Cohen, 30) and grandson (Julian Morris, 34) are VERY sympathetic and VERY attractive, so there is definitely that!




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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2017, 09:06:14 am »

...I was very emotional at the end almost as much as BBM.
I guess I fall between the 2 times.
Another movie I saw a week or so ago at the NZ International Film festival was called "100 Men" Having been made in NZ, it may not get much airing elsewhere although the producer lived and worked most of his life in London. It was a great movie as it was a history of gay life by going through 100 men (unlike me he must have written names in his diary) with whom he had sex. He interviews some of them.
I plan to see "God's Own Country" this afternoon. It started in the theatres last Thursday but I am afraid it will not stay long. As I wrote, I was very disappointed in "Call me by my name" so I hope I am not disappointed this afternoon.

Yeap.  I'll discuss some later with spoiler flags on.  There are quite a few swift kicks.
Yeap. My gut has always said that many fall somewhere in between either spectrum...
WOW "100 Men" sounds interesting.  It's an "look back in time" + "where are they now" I D K how I feel about that.
Yes I really want to see "God's Own Country".  But we may have to wait a while here in the US. The reviews make the hairs on my neck stand.
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 09:24:15 am »

Someone has cleverly posted both  episodes on Youtube, putting Spanish subtitles (on the bottom of the screen, and NOT obtrusively) as a dodge--if you are interested, see the episodes QUICKLY before they are pulled down![/color][/size]
FYI, I think it's better to see them in the correct order, episode 1 in the 40s/50s. then episode 2--even though I actually preferred episode 2.
Also FYI--Vanessa Redgrave's father, famous actor Michael Redgrave, of course, was gay, and Vanessa's husband, director Tony Richardson, was also gay.  The writer of the story from the film was taken, Patrick Gale, is the son of a gay man, and he is himself gay (married to Aidan Hicks, m. 2008)
Also Also FYI--in episode 2 watch out for Julian Sands of A Room with a View  (1985)
Final FYI--grandfather (Oliver Jackson-Cohen, 30) and grandson (Julian Morris, 34) are VERY sympathetic and VERY attractive, so there is definitely that!


Ditto.  Those links probably won't survive long.
Yes, they need to be seen in order as intended or you may not understand Flora's twisting.  If I had to choose, I preferred Episode 1 for the hopefulness - Episode 2 for the reality.
Oh wow, I did not know that about Redgrave's family or history.  It is more than fitting that she is playing the grandmother! She and Gale have much in common.
Ditto.   Shocked
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 10:40:51 am »

Ditto.  Those links probably won't survive long.



Sadly.



Yes, they need to be seen in order as intended or you may not understand Flora's twisting.  If I had to choose, I preferred Episode 1 for the hopefulness - Episode 2 for the reality.



Just the opposite for me. My family history, life history, is such that, for me, Episode 1 means "reality" (what ever that means) and Episode 2 means "hopefulness" (however illusory).

I was born in 1954 to much older parents. A few members of my mother's family lived in London during the war. In some ways, they found the war was difficult but exciting, but post-war was very bleak.

Mrs. March, Thomas's middle class mother (the sainted Frances de la Tour) was bravely, acerbically stoic, a leathery old turtle who was also kind and vulnerable. I knew people just like that, and I loved them very much. But the era of 50s Britain was defeated, day-to-day life was literally thwarted  (so different than 50s America, where I was born and lived). Gay life in 50s Britain was dire.  

At least now everything is open, and we can fight openly.




Oh wow, I did not know that about Redgrave's family or history.  It is more than fitting that she is playing the grandmother! She and Gale have much in common.



Oh, it's better (or worse!) than that. Vanessa's daughter, Joely Richardson, said it was scurrilous nonsense, but for years the widespread rumor told was that Vanessa came home unexpectedly to find her husband was in bed with--wait for it--her father.  So yes, there are a LOT of resonances vibrating like mad around that lovely cottage.

 Shocked Roll Eyes laugh



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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 03:17:22 pm »

100 men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKV5uD69NI

Interesting it shows part where they discuss the Castro. I went back to the Castro while in SF at the beginning of July, actually July 4. Although I have visited SF several times since I had not made it up to the Castro since 1980. Very sad. It is all very well to celebrate that gays are welcome everywhere today but how do we meet. The couple in front of me at God's Own Country" were obviously a gay couple but they left as soon as the credits began. There was one other single probably in his 50's but everyone else (less than a dozen) was a hetero couple (the theatre was the smallest in our multiplex only seating 34.)

There were more obvious gays at "100 men" and the group sitting behind me had an interesting conversation before the start but I left without speaking to anyone. I live in a university city and there are gay groups at the university but obviously not my age. At the Gay fair each year there are stalls set up for lesbians and the university gay group but nothing for older gays. I have lots of friends and organise a weekly hiking group for over 60's but they are nearly all women, widowed, divorced or still married, the few men including my best mate are all married. I do not know any openly gay men to talk to in my home city.
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 07:31:15 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/28/my-fathers-love-for-another-man-patrick-gale-man-in-an-orange-shirt




Drama

Man in an Orange Shirt
My father's love for another man: how I turned my parents' tragic secret into a TV drama
At the age of 22, Patrick Gale was shocked to discover the reason why his parents had separate beds. The writer explains how
he turned their fears, silences and stifled passions into Man in an Orange Shirt


by Patrick Gale
Friday 28 July 2017 11.13 EDT



‘She saw to it he was never alone with any of us’ … right, Patrick Gale’s parents Michael and Pippa on their wedding day.
Photograph: Patrick Gale





It was June 1984 in a Vietnamese restaurant in Pimlico. I had taken my mother to the revival of On Your Toes  for her birthday treat and was now feeding her her very first crispy duck pancakes. I was 22 and living in a bedsit off Notting Hill Gate.

I had never formally come out. It would have seemed a little redundant. I’d been a wildly camp little boy, much given to dressing up even for school, and an aesthetically obsessed teenager who spent all his spare time on music and acting. The closest I ever came was handing my mother the manuscript of my first novel, The Aerodynamics of Pork,  a few weeks earlier. Still in print, for the charitable or curious, this is a wild fantasy in which almost every character has a lesbian or gay secret.

“So?” I finally asked, when she didn’t bring it up. “What did you make of the book?”

“It was lovely,” she said unconvincingly. “Funny and naughty and oh so sad. Now I’ll think every policewoman I see is a lesbian. Your father read it, too.”

I hadn’t counted on this. My father’s preferred reading veered wildly between two-volume lives of Victorian archbishops and thrillers with submarines on the cover. I loved him, he was always very kind to me, but we were not close, not confessional in the way I had always been with my mother. I would sit at the foot of her bed to talk as she rubbed in her night cream. I never did the equivalent with him. She saw my consternation. “It will help him come to terms with himself,” she added.



Revelations … Vanessa Redgrave and Julian Morris in Man in an Orange Shirt.  Photograph: Nick Briggs/BBC/Kudos


Twenty-three years earlier, while heavily pregnant with me and preparing to move the family from Governor’s House, at HMP Camp Hill on the Isle of Wight, to the equivalent mansion in Wandsworth, she had taken it upon herself to tidy out my father’s desk. She came upon a sheaf of letters tucked away in a drawer, saw the first began “My darling Michael” and gleefully sat down to read, assuming them to be from some girl he had never mentioned. Only they were from his oldest school friend, who had gone to Oxford with him, and fought alongside him in the war. They had been best man to each another.

“But maybe they were just very close?” I suggested. “Men back then often had deep romantic friendships. Darling didn’t always mean–”

She cut me off, espresso cup wobbling. It was plain from the letters, she said, that my father had shown the man a passion he had never shown her. She burnt them – terrified, in such an era, that their discovery would see him arrested and sent to one of the prisons his colleagues governed. In the early 1960s, discovery would have spelled a ruin as complete as in the time of Oscar Wilde.



‘He had one great love but believed it impossible’ … Michael Gale with his children on the Isle of Wight in 1959.
Photograph: Patrick Gale



Her next responses were stranger and more damaging. She never told him what she had discovered. She simply never let him in her bed again – encouraging the adoption of separate beds under a single hypocritical quilt, and then separate bedrooms. Thinking herself, as the wife and daughter of prison governors, well versed in such sordid matters, she assumed the revelation meant he was a paedophile, so thereafter saw to it that he was never left alone with any of us. I did not have a single private moment with my father until my teens, when he retired, and I began to have tentative encounters with this near stranger now present at weekday breakfasts.

She was happy that the story excited me. Suddenly I understood my father. Suddenly his emotional inhibition and his complete lack of demonstrative behaviour made sense. It was only as I waved her off on her train back to Winchester the following morning that I realised her gladness had a completely different meaning to the one I’d clumsily assumed. She didn’t realise she was telling me a horror story of stifled love and a marriage built on lies. She honestly believed, having read my novel of tangled gay love lives, that she was offering me hope that I, too, might yet meet a good Christian woman like her, who would burn my past and mend my ways.



Secret affair … Oliver Jackson-Cohen and James McArdle in Man in an Orange Shirt.  Photograph: Nick Briggs/BBC


I don’t for one moment think of my father as having been gay. That term simply doesn’t hold for the men of his ambiguously homosocial generation. I think he had one great love but that he believed it was impossible and immature. Psychologically, he was suited to becoming a bachelor history don, harbouring secret favouritisms, and cared for by a devoted housekeeper, but he held it was his Christian duty to marry and have children. So that’s what he did.

I have letters from my parents’ courtship in early 1950s Durham, where he was working at the prison. It’s plain that at some point in the relationship there was a muffled crisis brought on, I think, by his attempting to confess everything about himself and by her inability, in her ferociously maintained innocence, to deal with it. And I don’t think the impulse to infidelity will have once entered his mind. Ironically, by never telling him what she had discovered, she maintained him in the belief that he had indeed been saved by her. And, though wildly unsuited in many ways, they found a kind of companionate love, especially once an empty nest removed any pressure to function as a traditional couple.

But in that Pimlico restaurant in 1984, after two decades of believing myself a family freak and someone living outside the law, making my legs and arms and scalp bleed from eczema as my guilt and fear erupted through my skin, I had been abruptly awarded the validation that comes from genetic inheritance.



‘I was very like my father in so many ways’ … Patrick Gale. Photograph: Daniel Hall


I was very like my father in so many ways. I favoured him physically but I think we were alike emotionally as well, given to sly observation and irony in situations where my two older brothers would respond with open anger. Like him, I would always choose solitude over a crowd, a book over a party. Like him, I learnt to hide my social reluctance with courtesy and correctness. So learning that he might have been like me, had he only been born 40 years later, made me understand, pity and warm to him.

Yet, like my mother, I found I could never tell him what I had learnt. I showed my new love in code instead, in books and bottles of whisky and in invitations to visit me in my new life in Cornwall. He was deeply supportive of my two long-term domestic relationships, settling my share of the family silver just as if I had got married, and doing his best to love my partners.

Man in an Orange Shirt is not about Pippa and Michael Gale. I’ve written versions of them repeatedly in my novels. But it has at its heart that terrible scene of discovery and letter-burning. However, in the drama I’ve imagined how differently things might have played out had my mother confronted my father and, like so many couples of their generation, achieved a terrible, respectable compromise. Writing it, I gave voice to my father’s stifled passion and pain, but also came to understand the impossible burden my poor mother took on in marrying him.



Man in an Orange Shirt  begins on BBC2 at 9pm on 31 July

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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 08:24:40 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/aug/01/man-in-an-orange-shirt-review-heartbreaking-happiness-denied




Drama
Last night's TV

Man in an Orange Shirt
Review: a heartbreaking tale of happiness denied
Patrick Gale's drama – based on his own parents’ marriage – shows the difficult consequences of concealing
your sexuality in wartime Britain. Plus: also from the BBC’s Gay Britannia season, Ben Whishaw stars in Queers


by Rebecca Nicholson
Tuesday 1 August 2017 01.00 EDT



Michael (Oliver Jackson-Cohen in Man in an Orange Shirt. Photograph: Nick Briggs/BBC / Kudos / Nick Briggs

 


Man in an Orange Shirt  (BBC2) is the handsome heart of the BBC’s substantial Gay Britannia season, commemorating the 50th anniversary of homosexuality being decriminalised in Britain. It is written by the novelist Patrick Gale and loosely based on a discovery he made about his own parents’ relationship, and tells the gently wrenching story of a secret romance between soldiers Michael and Thomas, and the increasingly frayed marriage of Michael and his new wife Flora, whom he marries because, well, it’s the 1940s and that’s just what people did. “You didn’t think we could set up home together like man and wife,” splutters Michael, after Thomas takes umbrage at being asked to be his best man.

It is a sad and human story of people trying to do their best when their times allow them no best option. War brings Michael and Thomas together, when Michael drags his bloodied comrade away from battle, a bullet hole penetrating his official war artist sketchbook. He lingers bedside as Thomas recuperates, allowing him the perfect moment to try his luck. “It’s bloody embarrassing but I can’t button my flies single-handedly,” Thomas says, invitingly, which is a bold chat-up line, and – since they’re lustily snogging behind a tree a few seconds later – clearly a very effective one.

As soon as the war ends, Michael seeks out his love in London, and finds him painting above a shop called Shades by LucienLucien is a waspy and protective guardian of both his shop and his friend, batting away peril with a disarming quip. Shade, indeed. “I don’t bite, unless you pay extra,” he purrs.

Thwarted love is the driving force, but Man in an Orange Shirt  does a beautiful job of showing the consequences of repression for all during this time of upheaval. The naughty Daphne, who talks about “riding up top” – she doesn’t mean buses – balances Flora’s buttoned-up propriety; Thomas and his friends are bohemian, and wear bright scarves, to counter Michael’s too-small bowler hat. Flora (Joanna Vanderham – in the second episode, next week, she is played by Vanessa Redgrave) is furious at her husband’s betrayal, and scared about the punitive measures that would be doled out to Michael should he ever be discovered. The fracturing of their relationship is unbearably sad, because really it’s nobody’s fault.

Much of the tension is between Michael’s inability to move beyond the life that is expected of him and Thomas’ inability, or unwillingness, to toe the line. Both positions are sympathetic. James McArdles Thomas is angry and defiant, beaten down and wounded by imprisonment and injustice. Oliver Jackson-Cohen is Michael, all Buzz Lightyear jawline and watery Jake Gyllenhaal eyes. It’s handy that he’s got such expressive peepers, as much of the emotion here is offered in a series of lingering looks shot across various gorgeously decorated period rooms that say, variously: “I’m in pain,” “I’m in agony,” or “Sorry about marrying you even though I’m deeply in love with my best friend.”

It is easy to see why everyone in this drama is so angry. It should make us angry, too, at the outrageous unfairness of imprisoning gay men at a very recent time in Britain’s history. The consequences were not just broken hearts – in his recent book, Queer CityPeter Ackroyd argues that, as a result of being hounded by the press and the police, suicides among gay men may have occurred in far greater numbers than have ever been properly reported. Inevitably, then, Man in an Orange Shirt  is unwaveringly doleful.

Even the early scenes of bucolic bliss in a countryside cottage are tinged with the inescapable sadness that it is a temporary fantasy that cannot be sustained. It is made even more heartbreaking by the proximity of happiness. Just 20 years later, and it might all have been different. That is not to say that one legislative decision would have enabled them to live openly and freely by 1967 – in fact, it’s unlikely that much would have changed. But the tragedy of Thomas exiling himself to France, to “drink himself to death in the sun”; the tragedy of Flora being trapped in a marriage without love; the tragedy of Michael doing what he believes is right and proper – perhaps that might have begun to shift just enough to allow a glint of happiness to shine through.

***

There is more Gay Britannia with Queers  (BBC4), a series of monologues written and performed by familiar faces, with two new editions appearing every night this week. The first, and best, is written by Mark Gatiss, and has Ben Whishaw as another soldier in love with an officer, this time in 1917. Whishaw’s hangdog expression gives Jackson-Cohen’s a run for his money. Then Michael Dennis’s story of a trip to London in 1994 gives Dunkirk ’s Fionn Whitehead a Bennett-like platform in which he memorably calls homophobic politicians “desiccated twats”. Both are excellent.




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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 08:30:39 am »

He looks a lot like Jake.



Well, there you have it!  laugh



https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/aug/01/man-in-an-orange-shirt-review-heartbreaking-happiness-denied

Oliver Jackson-Cohen is Michael, all Buzz Lightyear jawline and watery Jake Gyllenhaal eyes. It’s handy that he’s got such expressive peepers, as much of the emotion here is offered in a series of lingering looks shot across various gorgeously decorated period rooms that say, variously: “I’m in pain,” “I’m in agony,” or “Sorry about marrying you even though I’m deeply in love with my best friend.”




https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/aug/01/man-in-an-orange-shirt-review-heartbreaking-happiness-denied



Michael (Oliver Jackson-Cohen in Man in an Orange Shirt. Photograph: Nick Briggs/BBC / Kudos / Nick Briggs

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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 09:09:55 am »


This looks like an interesting film and premise.  I'll try to catch it when it makes it to one of the video services.  THanks for posting the link.

Last time I was in SF about 3 years ago, I roomed in a nice bed-breakfast in the Castro.  I had a short walk to the BART and made my meetings in the financial district on time without shelling out so much cash.  The BB was immaculate and mostly quiet except on weekends.  It was pretty closet to Castro Street.  Got loud on the weekends - earplugs easily fixed that.  The owner served a great breakfast spread every AM.   The Castro Theater is one of my favorites to see shows.  I missed seeing BBM there one year by less than 1 week.   It's a great place to visit.  You mentioned hiking.. next time you are there, you should hike to the top of Twin Peaks.  It's a great view.  Take a jacket and sunscreen.  I did that and then just walked back down any old way and saw parts of the area I'd never have seen otherwise.   Highly recommended.. but it is quite steep. V.
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 09:12:22 am »

Well, there you have it!  laugh

Yeap.  I saw that review and agree.  BTW, that's one of my favorite shots from the film where Michael is patiently waiting for Thomas to wake up from his injuries.  The lines "...was I mean to you..." were totally unexpected. Thanks for posting it.

How many people have actually seen the 2-part series?  What are your thoughts for discussion? V.
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2017, 05:43:05 am »

I posted this over in an UBF thread.  I figure  we could also have a discussion here..  

Some of those shots have striking parallels in BBM, in fact there are a few dead on.

 ** SPOILERS  ON **

I agree with that scene where they ran into each other, the one you quoted.  Powerful.

Times are approximate as I watched it in 2 parts from the Youtube links posted earlier.

8:15 in Flora is teaching a lesson to her class about Achilles and Patroclus.  The class is having a discussion (and snicker) about the two Greeks when Flora casually explains their relationship as "love between heroes was regarded as surpassing the love within marriage..."  Both Michael and Thomas served in the War as we are shown in the opening sequences.   Contrast those words with her reaction(s) to finding Thomas's un-mailed letters to Michael.  Add that to the angry, hateful words she spews at Michael about Thomas's painting after she confronts him.  Now layer on her cold reaction to running into Thomas and that "good-bye" kiss Thomas motions as she and Michael leave on the bus where he essentially wishes her well.  So did she ever grasp what she was teaching?

17:30 minutes in - there's the "you have no idea..."  that gave goose-bump parallels to that same Jack and Ennis conversation.

00:41, 00:43+ - the whole exchange with Thomas' mother.  When she opens the curtain and says  "she's been storing " it's a direct parallel to Jack's mother telling Ennis to go upstairs and look about Jack's room.  Then there are her lines around the painting(s), the eye contact about THE painting, "...but it is you, isn't it?" and then she tells Michael he must take it. That, I feel, parallels Ennis and Jack's mom's interaction at the end with the bag and shirt.

00:49 minutes in - when Micheal goes to see Thomas getting out of prison.  Thomas looks around just hoping Micheal is there but their eyes never meet.  Then Michael goes home and collapses going up the stairs.   (OMG it was Ennis in the alley all over again)  Then there was the shot in that same scene looking up at him thru the staircase runs, framing it like his own prision.   Whew!

00:55 - 00:58 mins  - When Thomas bumps into Michael and Flora and he connects with Michael one last time.  Thomas blowing Flora the kiss admits defeat and he knows he will likely never see Michael again.  In fact, I think that is the last time we see ever lay eyes on each other.   In this same scene, Thomas gives Michael's son Patrick a gift.  It's a box of pastel chalks... pay attention to that box.

1:17 mins in - The guys in the field, the camera work panning around them is like the scene with Jack and Ennis during their last meeting when Ennis collapses in Jack's arms.

1:49 mins in - those intertwined paintings after all those years - OMG - it kicked me damn hard right in the gut.  Still gives me chills just thinking about it now and what Flora had to face in that instant.

1:56 mins in - that letter which we didn't know the fate of.  Now here's another kicker.  It is almost an exact book end in running time to its first appearance.  When Flora gives her grandson Adam the single letter she saved which Michael NEVER sent to Thomas, she kept it in the "Pastel Colors" box Thomas had given Michael's son Robert at that last chance meeting.  WOW.  Nice detail.

Since the story is "loosely based" on Patrick Gale's father, it is unclear how much of what we see may be factual other than he was gay. But none-the-less, that does not detract from the story, the acting or the emotional conveyance. If there is a letter, what a treasure!  

(This is a delta from the story... )  See https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/28/my-fathers-love-for-another-man-patrick-gale-man-in-an-orange-shirt

** SPOILERS OFF ***

I'll keep replaying this in my head for a long time.
I also will do more reading about his real life.
This will be a permanent film for viewing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/07/31/man-orange-shirt-heart-rending-account-gay-life-forties-britain/
"...personified brilliantly the two poles of the dilemma gay men faced: to bow to social convention and die inwardly or live a true life and be pilloried for it. All of this made for a thoroughly engaging drama that did a terrific job of reminding us how damaging and repellent attitudes to homosexuality were in the not-so-distant past."

Here's another -> https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/aug/01/man-in-an-orange-shirt-review-heartbreaking-happiness-denied
"Much of the tension is between Michael’s inability to move beyond the life that is expected of him and Thomas’ inability, or unwillingness, to toe the line. Both positions are sympathetic. James McArdle’s Thomas is angry and defiant, beaten down and wounded by imprisonment and injustice. Oliver Jackson-Cohen is Michael, all Buzz Lightyear jawline and watery Jake Gyllenhaal eyes. It’s handy that he’s got such expressive peepers, as much of the emotion here is offered in a series of lingering looks shot across various gorgeously decorated period rooms that say, variously: “I’m in pain,” “I’m in agony,” or “Sorry about marrying you even though I’m deeply in love with my best friend.” "

One more --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/entries/6a5ba29a-76c3-4a85-9af2-e8f77da7a96d

V.
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 07:05:13 am »

Ran across this last night.  Explanations from Patrick Gale for MIAOS --> http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-08-07/patrick-gale-reveals-the-secrets-of-man-in-an-orange-shirt/1
V.
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 03:04:33 pm »

Thanks for this. Although I am 20 - 25 years behind Michael and Thomas, so much applies. I told my mother (or she found me crying) when in my early 20's. She always loved me but never liked me mentioning my sexuality.  In her last year, 2006 aged 96, I played the cd of BBM and she told me she did not like that cowboy music :-)
I looked after mum, who could not be left alone, while my sister went to see BBM. My sister (aged 83) is totally supportive but my sexuality is never mentioned in front of her husband (who does know) and her best girlfriend (not sure?) who are both highly homophobic. Obviously my friends are mainly in their 70's. I know they are all aware but I never mention it and once or twice when I have made some comment (eg some man is good looking) I see and hear the embarrassed titters. I have had longer conversations with one or two (they are nearly all women, widowed or divorced) who I know are more au fait with it eg one whose brother was gay and committed suicide. I never mention it to my best male friends who are all married with grandkids but they must know.
As I said I recorded MAIOS so must go and watch it again. I rarely watch movies twice but did see BBM 4 times, easily a record for me but. although I have 2 copies I know I have not watched it for at least 8 years.
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 05:53:35 am »

I have just finished watching MIAOS again although this time in 2 parts, the first was nearly a week go. It was good to notice somethings in the movie that I missed the first time especially when you understand the significance. Again I ended up sobbing my heart out, that last part where you hear Michael reading his unposted letter to Thomas while you see Adam hopefully making it up with Steve just gets to me.

I am debating whether to show it to my sister when she visits me next month. As I said, I sent her to see BBM while I cared for Mum. Not sure I can sit through the sex scenes with my big sister.

Our parents did not display much affection, other than a brief kiss, when we were growing up. I knew very little about sex until in my mid 20's (my school friends were more likely to discuss theology than sex :-) ) so no wonder I went rather mad in my late 20's in dark backrooms. Meeting a guy socially then progressing from there is completely foreign to me. So I really understood where Adam was coming from. I wish I could have seen such a movie when I was young.
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2017, 10:32:21 am »

Brian, I feel for you and those of your generation who missed the ordinary but quite magical experience of meeting someone, getting to know them, and falling in love with them. That should not be denied to anybody! I want to see MIAOS, I have a lot to catch up on.
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 04:38:09 pm »

I have just finished watching MIAOS again although this time in 2 parts, the first was nearly a week go. It was good to notice somethings in the movie that I missed the first time especially when you understand the significance. Again I ended up sobbing my heart out, that last part where you hear Michael reading his unposted letter to Thomas while you see Adam hopefully making it up with Steve just gets to me.

Brian,

I know you and I have our differences, but I completely agree with you about MIAOS.

The ending of the movie interweaves the tragic and the hopeful. Since we don't know until the end that Michael never mailed the letter, that tragedy hits home when Flora gives it to Adam. For me, the hardest part about that is that Thomas never really knew how much Michael loved him.

At the same time, the letter is cathartic for Adam.  The final shower scene indicates that he is now free from his anxiety. And then when he lets Steve read it, we see that there is hope for their relationship. The way I interpreted the ending is that Micheal did not write that letter in vain after all. It redeemed his grandson.   
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 09:05:29 am »

I have just finished watching MIAOS again although this time in 2 parts, the first was nearly a week go. It was good to notice somethings in the movie that I missed the first time especially when you understand the significance. Again I ended up sobbing my heart out, that last part where you hear Michael reading his unposted letter to Thomas while you see Adam hopefully making it up with Steve just gets to me.

SPOILERS ON
The team's attention to details and layering for MIAOS is impressive.  There are so many small things which are foreshadowed earlier in and then return later on. The best one I can think of is the pastels box Thomas gives to Michael's son.... which eventually Flora gives to Adam.
SPOILERS OFF

The cuts are brief and it's something you would normally hardly notice, then wham, you do.  See my earlier index listing for points which pay homage to BBM as well things like I just mentioned.  V.   
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 09:07:30 am »

The ending of the movie interweaves the tragic and the hopeful. Since we don't know until the end that Michael never mailed the letter, that tragedy hits home when Flora gives it to Adam. For me, the hardest part about that is that Thomas never really knew how much Michael loved him.

At the same time, the letter is cathartic for Adam.  The final shower scene indicates that he is now free from his anxiety. And then when he lets Steve read it, we see that there is hope for their relationship. The way I interpreted the ending is that Micheal did not write that letter in vain after all. It redeemed his grandson.  

Well said!  And it's one of the reasons this "Made for TV film" is now on my top 10 favorites.  It could easily have played in theaters. V.
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 06:56:24 pm »

Well said!  And it's one of the reason's this "Made for TV film" is now on my top 10 favorites.  It could easily have played in theaters. V.

Thank you. The film is very well-crafted. It makes my heart ache so much for Michael and Thomas that I've been writing scenarios in my head that would allow them to escape their fate. At the same time, I realize that the choices everyone made were essential to the final outcome of the story.
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« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2017, 02:50:51 pm »

I think the film shows the different opportunities available for those in artistic professions (Thomas) to those in the more "straight" world (Michael).
Even though I grew up about 20-25 years later, I can still see the vast difference today. I had an argument with an entertainer in Sydney about my age who complained that BBM was just another sad gay movie. He was well known as being gay but people laughed (some at, some with) him. There were bohemian areas of Sydney where gays could meet and some could live together, generally unmolested as long as they were not too obvious. As an artist, Thomas could pass and earn an income in that world but even his mother referred to "that creature" when mentioning the guy (cannot remember his name) with whom he shared lodgings.

Michael was in the world of business which would never accept a gay lifestyle in the 50's. A couple might set up house in the suburbs but they would be in fear of the neighbours taking a dislike to them (perhaps an argument over fences or just being zealots) and calling the police as I saw in another UK TV program recently.

I have friends who were able to find the gay scene, my first long time boy friend had found it as a teenager but he still lived with his mother. Today he lives with his partner in their own home in a very conservative religious area of the city, no problems. I remember the first time I went to a political rally (I was almost 30) and it was the first time I had been in a room of gays. I nearly left when the first speaker said "Hi Girls". As a teacher in a high school I had to suppress any sign of effeminacy and was repulsed by it. I have got over that but it took a long while.

Many others succumbed to pressure and got married. The psychiatrist told me to find a nice girl and my last contact with him was to tell him I was engaged. Probably saved me from electro therapy but when I realised it was not going to work and broke it off, it was the only time my Mother turned against me. I remember my fiancee saying she would not sue me for breach of promise and not long later one of my primary school class mates was sued and it was in the papers and I think the last such case  before the law was changed.
I often met gay men who were married and snuck out for sex. Some others came to an arrangement with their wives and of course, others divorced. I use to meet a man who was headmaster of the local high school and we had to meet outside the school zone. He was married with 2 sons. He could not understand why I broke off our meetings as he knew I was lonely. But I wanted a relationship, doing ordinary things together not just quick sex so he could return to his family.

Possibly Michael and Thomas could have had a life together in France. I know some friends who spent a year in Paris in the 60's and told me how much better it was. I did not go there until 1974 and it was legal in London by then but still not the freedom to be open like it is today.

However I am a product of those times. There is a man in our over 60's club, two years older than me. The first time I met him I thought to myself  you are gay. Some of the women have asked me if he is. One time when the group went away, the leader said the two men can have the Queen bed rooms (he would not share which was ok by me . He giggled and said "I'm not a queen".  I nearly decked him. I should have said "I am"  As I have told some women in the group, it is now common knowledge, but I never mention it to the other married men even though they are now close friends. I guess they know.  A few years ago I showed a gay guy from Auckland (in his 20's) around Dunedin. He had written he liked older men but I think I was too old  Grin  I said to him. "I do not go into a room and announce I am gay" He replied "I do".

I have raved on about my thoughts on MIAOS.
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2018, 05:05:04 pm »

Heads up...

Man in an Orange Shirt will be airing in a single two-hour presentation on MASTERPIECE on PBS, Sunday, June 17th, 2018 at 9/8c.
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« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2018, 02:28:05 pm »

Patrick Gale lives in Cornwall, the next county to my Devon, and he often gives talks and leads discussions on his books. I had to miss one on A Place Called Winter recently, but in September he’s coming to this area to give two talks on Take Nothing With You, which will be published in August.

I wish MIAOS would be published as a screenplay.
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2018, 07:48:15 pm »

Heads up...

Man in an Orange Shirt will be airing in a single two-hour presentation on MASTERPIECE on PBS, Sunday, June 17th, 2018 at 9/8c.
WOW.. TY!
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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 03:00:48 am »

I’ve now got tickets for the September talk. Suppose I’ll have to buy and read the expensive book before I go!  Well, of course I want to read it, but won’t be able to wait for the paperback.
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 06:04:52 pm »

Hope you give us a review, Sara!
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2018, 03:43:04 am »

I’ll do my best!
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 05:30:07 pm »

Wink
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« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2018, 07:51:04 pm »

I watched both the UK and US versions.  Below are what the US censors changed that I caught.

OK.. I've almost got the version broadcast UK version memorized. They slightly changed things in the US version.    In most cases the US version removed or changed the words "fuck, shit" and removed all shots with any bare asses or even covered asses clearly having sex.  The big surprise is #10...they removed that whole conversation! 

1) About 17 minutes in when Michael and Thomas embrace and fall back onto the bed at the cottage, the UK version shows Thomas eagerly sliding Michael's shorts down. In the US version, it cuts straight to them intensely kissing with no shorts sliding.  Sorry I could not help but to notice that one. Smiley

2) This change is about 26 mins in when Michael and Flora are consummating their marriage. In the UK version, we get full on view of Michael's motions on top of Flora.  In the US version, that part of the scene is darkened and I'd say blurred somewhat or maybe even a quicker cut.

3) About 40 mins in when Lucien and Michael meet at the bar and he's explaining why Michael must go see Thomas in prison, they changed the words Lucien uses.  In the US version he says "because you can fornicate....," in the UK version "he says "fuck".  

4) About 1:04 mins in when Adam is showering after having dinner with his grandmother, in the UK version, there's a cut where he's shown naked thru the shower door (rear view).  In the US version, that view is blurred.

5) From about 1:08 - 1:10, the conversation with his former girlfriend who's trying to fix him up, in the US version they censored the "you are going to go fuck a complete stranger" comment.  Then when Adam meets Bruno, there are no direct shots of either Adam's or Bruno's butt or those frame areas are darkened.  Also the shot of Bruno standing in the door, with his butt clearly in view are cut as is the shot of Adam's butt as he's dressing as Bruno is showering.

6) About 1:30 mins in when Adam is talking to his grandmother, they just removed the word fuck from his line "it's no business of your who I fuck".. we see the lips move but no words.

7) About 1:31 in when Adam has the confrontation with his grandmother and is sitting in the car, the US censors removed the curse word "shit" which Adam yells when the phone call to Steve goes to voicemail.

8 ) About 1:32 in when Adam is giving the guy outside a blowjob, the US censors shorten the scene and remove some camera angles and takes.

9) About 1:33 in when Adam is scrubbing himself in the sink at the cottage, he's standing there naked in the UK version.  In the US version he's wearing a towel around his waist.

10) About 1:38 in when Adam and Steve are talking over a coffee after the guests have gone, the US censors remove the entire conversation where Adam asks Steve if he could ever imaging having kids with him.  The US version jumps directly to "Thanks for making today so special."  

11) About 1:49 when Adam returns home to Flora and is very upset that Steve left,  the US censors strike the word fucking from Adam's dialog "it's all my fucking fault."

later, V.
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« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2018, 04:28:26 am »



Man In An Orange Shirt

part 1 in english with Spanish subtitles/capitulo 1 sub espańol
Published on November 22, 2017

Two love stories, sixty years apart, charting the challenges
and huge change to gay lives from WW2 to present.
The first screen drama from best-selling novelist Patrick Gale,
starring Oliver Jackson-Cohen and James McArdle


A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season







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hhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTX4GEgtqM


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« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2018, 05:13:55 am »



Man In An Orange Shirt

part 2 in english with Spanish subtitles/capitulo 2 sub espańol
Published on November 22, 2017

Two love stories, sixty years apart, charting the challenges
and huge change to gay lives from WW2 to present.
The first screen drama from best-selling novelist Patrick Gale,
starring Julian Morris, David Gyasi
and Vanessa Redgrave


A Kudos Production for BBC
Part of the BBC's Gay Britannia season







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Logged

"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
(and you know who I am...)


Cowboy Curtis (Laurence Fishburne)
and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
"Camping Out"
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [All] Go Up Print 
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