Author Topic: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance  (Read 48787 times)

Offline lachlan

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • A candle looses nothing by lighting another candle
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2007, 09:48:12 am »
Hello, Brokies! I live in the Scottish Highlands (no TV or computer here; I use one when I'm visiting the town) but I work in Bulgaria much of the time; also in the mountains. However, I lived in the Cascade Mtns (west of the Rockies) back in the '60s. I had a remarkably similar relationship to that of Jack and Innes. Naturally, I was overwhelmed by the film but also totally convinced by it. From my own experience, and what I learned from others in similar circumstances, I can vouch for the authenticity of the narrative. I do, of course, have my own interpretation of some of the issues (overly-rigid "sexuality" definitions, exclusion from social groups - the Jimbo scene - and the emotional consequences of losing a loved one without any ritual of departure). I've just written some in the sites "davecullen" and "ennisjack" which I suppose have a crossover of membership. But I'd be happy to share some of my thoughts and memories as well as interpretations of the film and story. I'd also like to learn from others. Is there anyone else out there who had a secret male-male relationship in the American West during the '60s? My lover (and, yes, we both had women and kids) was named, coincidentally, Innes. And we first met in 1963 on a mountain sheep-ranch (in Packwood, WA). He was killed in January, 1971. I learned of his death from a postcard delayed by a postal strike (and as the post had come out of sequence, the message wasn't clear; I had to make that phonecall). And further; I found that he'd hidden his closest personal belongings among my own in a cellar cupboard rather than leaving them with his wife. I have them still. Hope to find some similar experiences - and some contrasting ones!     Lachlan - goin' round the coffeepot lookin' for...
I come upon a bear is what happened!

Offline HerrKaiser

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,708
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2007, 02:14:57 pm »
maybe talk to diana ross about not getting credit for a movie about your life.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,980
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2007, 03:23:30 pm »
Hello, Brokies! I live in the Scottish Highlands (no TV or computer here; I use one when I'm visiting the town) but I work in Bulgaria much of the time; also in the mountains. However, I lived in the Cascade Mtns (west of the Rockies) back in the '60s. I had a remarkably similar relationship to that of Jack and Innes. Naturally, I was overwhelmed by the film but also totally convinced by it. From my own experience, and what I learned from others in similar circumstances, I can vouch for the authenticity of the narrative. I do, of course, have my own interpretation of some of the issues (overly-rigid "sexuality" definitions, exclusion from social groups - the Jimbo scene - and the emotional consequences of losing a loved one without any ritual of departure). I've just written some in the sites "davecullen" and "ennisjack" which I suppose have a crossover of membership. But I'd be happy to share some of my thoughts and memories as well as interpretations of the film and story. I'd also like to learn from others. Is there anyone else out there who had a secret male-male relationship in the American West during the '60s? My lover (and, yes, we both had women and kids) was named, coincidentally, Innes. And we first met in 1963 on a mountain sheep-ranch (in Packwood, WA). He was killed in January, 1971. I learned of his death from a postcard delayed by a postal strike (and as the post had come out of sequence, the message wasn't clear; I had to make that phonecall). And further; I found that he'd hidden his closest personal belongings among my own in a cellar cupboard rather than leaving them with his wife. I have them still. Hope to find some similar experiences - and some contrasting ones!     Lachlan - goin' round the coffeepot lookin' for...
When you saw the movie, it must have hit you like a ton of bricks. Thank you for making your way here. I asssume you're not still married. Do you think the movie will help you find the "handle"?
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline lachlan

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • A candle looses nothing by lighting another candle
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2007, 12:34:04 pm »
Yes, I think the movie definitely helped me find the "handle" inasmuch as it confirmed the intensity and truth of the most powerful love and loss that I've ever known. But it also served to convey this to many of my friends who have never quite understood what I went through. They seem to have a much more thorough understanding of the person that I am today after seeing the film. I was also quite taken by the CD of the music. Back in the 60's, it was always assumed that whenever a man sang a love song it was to a woman. We had to imagine that some songs were intended for us when we heard them. So I was quite overwhelmed to listen to "All I want to do is live with you..." and know that - as it was commissioned for BBM - it was intended to be from a man to a man. That fact was almost as profound as the movie itself. I also came to realise, although I'd thought of this before, that the fact that my Innes never had a funeral and that the extent of my relationship with him was not openly acknowledged at the time of his death, meant that I couldn't come to terms with the end of that stage of my life. When I saw the final scene of Innes in the trailer, I realised that I was witnessing myself as I am every year on Christmas Day. Innes and I never got to spend it together. For the past 36 years I've spent it largely, or entirely, on my own. The ritual with shirts and the photo is something which I have enacted countless times with Innes' picture, his pipe, his lighter, his repair kit and - yes - his shirts. I am considering arranging for a memorial service sometime in the future and to that end have been trying to track down others who knew us back then. I've managed to contact one so far and just emailed him a set of photos. His warm, thoughtful response was magnificent.
I come upon a bear is what happened!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,980
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2007, 02:00:08 pm »
Having a memorial is a very good idea. Please keep us informed on how this goes. Have you read the story??

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline lachlan

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • A candle looses nothing by lighting another candle
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2007, 06:41:21 am »
Yes, indeed, I've read the story and most of Annie Proulx's work. I have a hunch that Dianna Ossana and Larry McMurtry delved into her other stories for some of the characters they inserted into the screenplay: Cassie is very like the single women described in one of the stories and the scene with Jimbo the rodeo clown seems inspired by her tale of a lonely bullrider. One thing that struck me - and I don't know if this is the correct thread to bring it up - is that the Military Draft was a major factor in the lives of young men in 60s America; far more so than the film or the book imply. I find it puzzling that this is clearly an issue for Jack (1963 Jack: "..if the Army don't get me."  1967 Ennis: "Army didn't get you?"), but not for Ennis. Was he somehow exempt? After being put under Military Arrest and harrangued by a tribunal, I was given a "1-Y" classification (code for "suspicious loyalty"; I was born in the US of Scottish parents but spent much of my childhood in Scotland or Canada) and this caused numerous problems which still effect my life today. My own Innes was half-Indian. He spent much of that time on the run under a pseudonym (he selected "Innes" from the Gaelic "Aonghus", coincidentally; it was not his real name), and was ultimately killed in an avalanche while attempting to cross the border into Canada in January 1971. I was curious that the Draft issue was not a more prominent element in the storyline.
I come upon a bear is what happened!

Offline Artiste

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,998
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2007, 06:42:50 pm »
Guess that Annie did not speak to anyone about the draft issue in the USA nor Canada, for her book!

She did speak to some person(s).

Some of it is still a secret!!

Hugs!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,980
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2007, 12:44:43 pm »
I remember those days too...yes the draft was an ever-present threat. I knew many who went to Canada, or were drafted against their will. I also knew men who got married or went to college, because those were ways to get out of the draft. There were even some who injured themselves or feigned mental illness. Young people today have no idea how it was.

I'm glad it wasn't dwelt on too much in the movie. Brokeback Mountain is a kind of mythical place, and Wyoming itself seems to exist outside of the rest of the world, even tho it's surrounded by it!! The movie did not even mention the assassination of President Kennedy even though that happened during the time of the film. The screenplay had more signposts and Ang Lee took most of them out.
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Artiste

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,998
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2007, 07:14:28 pm »
Glad you talk about the draft in the USA Front-Ranger!!

May I take part of your comment:

I'm glad it wasn't dwelt on too much in the movie. Brokeback Mountain is a kind of mythical place, and Wyoming itself seems to exist outside of the rest of the world, even tho it's surrounded by it!! The movie did not even mention the assassination of President Kennedy even though that happened during the time of the film. The screenplay had more signposts and Ang Lee took most of them out.
...

I knew too of many men who were draft-dodgers, and saw many gay men even in Canada!! Born in the USA, some still are living in Canada, because of that war and draft!!

You say that the movie has NOT dwelt took much about the draught and/or draft-dodging?? Annie does talk about the draft!! It seems to me that Jack did, and also did even something agaisnt it; is that not so Front-Ranger??

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

Offline HerrKaiser

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,708
Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2007, 11:46:34 am »
to me, the infusion of draft issues, Kennedy's assasination, etc, would have taken the correct focus from the film. Books are another thing, but movies that get too multi-faceted, especially when the intent is to make a major point about a pivotal subject, end up being ho hum. the beauty of BBM is that it kept on track throughout and Lee blended high and low emotions, calm and violent scenes, past and present times without straying off-point. Beautiful.