Author Topic: So, what time is dinner?  (Read 17398 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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So, what time is dinner?
« on: November 22, 2006, 12:39:35 am »
Here's a thought that just popped into my head: We're swappin' recipes and family traditions, but I wonder what time everyone is having dinner on Thanksgiving Day?

While I was raised in town, not lonely like Ennis, my family has always remained close to its not-too-distant rural roots. Holiday dinners, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter, are generally mid-day meals, as is "Sunday Dinner." Indeed, I come from a background where folks don't have "breakfast, lunch, and dinner," they have "breakfast, dinner, and supper"--a holdover, I believe, from farming days, when the mid-day meal was the biggest of the day because men who have been working all morning plowing the back 40 need a big mid-day meal to give them the energy so they can go back out and finish that plowing.

In any case, my dad and I will be dining with his cousin's family mid-day on Thanksgiving Day. What about everyone else?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Meryl

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 01:15:58 am »
Good question, Jeff.  :)

I'm going to a friend's for dinner.  Appetizers at 2:00, and dinner at 3:00.  Should give us plenty of time to digest before heading home.  ;D
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Offline dot-matrix

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 03:46:45 am »
When I was a kid dinner was always at 4, after the ball game.  Now it seems the plan is always munchies between 1 and 3 and dinner at 3:30.  Bob and I are driving up to Colorado Springs to his folks for the holiday.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 04:44:52 am »
We're hosting ten (total) here this year, ETA of 2pm.  Most are coming from about an hour away, including my sister-in-law, who is actually bringing the turkey (I'm doing the Tofurky).  So, the plan is she is going to pull that done turkey out of the oven, swaddle it in insulating blankets, drive the hour to get here, and carve it pretty much right away.  It sounds like we will eat soon after everyone arrives, and then relax, play games, groan contentedly.

I washed the slipcovers on both couches today (thank you, IKEA), washed the serving pieces that don't get used that often, filled the salt and pepper shakers, and completely decluttered the kitchen counters.  My niece vacuumed everywhere

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 08:10:51 am »
My mom is cooking and hasn't been specific, but I suspect we'll be eating between 2 pm and 3 pm, which is usual.

In our house, the thing I love is to watch the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, which is on from 9 am til noon. I'll use the time tomorrow morning to make creamed onions and my husband is baking a pumpkin pie. We'll gather up the kids and head to my parents (20 minutes away), planning to arrive about 1 pm.

My sister and her family are driving from Massachusetts so they, unfortunately, will have to miss the parade on TV.

I grew up in the New York City suburbs of Long Island and have never been to see the Macy's parade in person! Probably just as well, I am sure you get a better view on TV.

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 11:46:44 am »
I grew up in the New York City suburbs of Long Island and have never been to see the Macy's parade in person! Probably just as well, I am sure you get a better view on TV.

Probably right about the parade. That's certainly the case with Philadelphia's Mummers' Parade on New Year's Day--and my condo looks directly down on the parade route!

Actually, watching the Macy's parade is a tradition I miss, but it's not practical right now. Dad and I have to travel to get to his cousin's spread for dinner, and when I said "mid-day" for dinner, I should have said specifically noon. Twelve o'clock sharp. High noon. That's when all the cooks (read: women) in the family have always planned the meal.

Leaving for the train station in about two hours. It's much more pleasant actually to travel by train on Thanksgiving Day--I have done this--but, again, I can't be traveling to my dad's on Thanksgiving morning when we have to travel an hour and a half to make a noon dinner.

I'll be doing the driving this year, as my dad is still recovering from his pacemaker implant. I've already told him, if it's raining, we're not sticking around at his cousin's place till after dark. I don't drive that often--don't have a car here in Philadelphia--and I'm not about to drive after dark on unfamiliar highways in the rain with headlights reflected off a wet roadway shining right in my eyes.

Have a wonderful holiday, everybody!
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 12:47:23 pm »
We're having just one other couple over, so there'll just be five of us.  I'm planning on us eating at around 5:00ish.  If it weren't for Ed, I'd do it earlier in the day - like 3:00 or 3:30, but he's used to eating way later than that in his family (not so much a tradition as a dysfunction).

Growing up in Western New York (kind of more rural than not, for the most part), we always had holiday dinners at 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon.  That was with my stepmother doing the cooking, and she was from Western Pennsylvania originally.  My Mom, originally from Henderson, Nevada, usually served such dinners at around 4:00ish.  My stepmother still calls the meal you have in the evenings "supper," (my Mom always called it that, too).

Come to think of it, my stepmother hates Thanksgiving.  Christmas and Easter are the holidays she loves to cook for, and we would usually have such a big gathering that she would make a turkey *and* a ham.  She'd only make stuffing at Christmas, though.  So she'd very grudgingly make just the basics for Thanksgiving, and her dessert specialty was always peanut butter pie.
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Offline Toast

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 12:55:16 pm »
This is in the NYTimes today.


Pass a Drumstick, and an Olive Branch

By KIM SEVERSON
Published: November 22, 2006 - New York Times

COOKS can control the Thanksgiving menu, but when the dishes leave the kitchen, things can unravel fast.

Family grudges buried by time and distance resurface. New girlfriends meet ex-husbands. Prius drivers make small talk with S.U.V. owners. And vegans spend the meal defending themselves.

It’s enough to break a cook’s heart. We seek the culture of the table as much as a well-made stuffing. We want the pace of the meal to be dreamy, the conversation indelible. Nirvana is a table trimmed with our best platters and a room brimming with friends, family and warm feelings.

The problem: Americans, as a whole, have lost touch with the ritual of the shared homemade meal. Although we eat at home a lot, the food often is from restaurants or the prepared foods section of the grocery store. Families eat in shifts and leave the television on. The sandwich has become the most popular dinner entree.

No wonder we have no idea how to behave at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend whose Thanksgiving meal went south just after her grandmother called her brother a cowardly Communist. Another friend’s nightmare began when her mother’s new boyfriend started talking about breasts, and he wasn’t referencing the turkey.

“There are a lot of impossible, unspoken rules on Thanksgiving,” said JoAnn Loulan, an author and family therapist who practices in the San Francisco Bay Area. “We’re supposed to be thankful and eat a lot and drink a lot and be nice to each other. Teenagers are supposed to stop being sullen. Matriarchs are supposed to make a perfect turkey and some man is supposed to know how to carve it.”

The day is so emotionally charged that Ms. Loulan is only half-joking when she suggests a potentially lucrative line for her practice: the dysfunctional family Thanksgiving chat room, an online marathon therapy session. Or, we could all save a little money and learn a few simple rules of etiquette instead. We’re not talking about the rules that make everyone nervous, like where to put your napkin and which fork to use, but the rules that make the day soft and smooth and comfortable. Kind of like Valium, without the side effects.

“The meaning of manners is really about being kind to people, about being nice,” said Nicole DeVault, a New York etiquette instructor who for years served as the manners consultant for the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

At the Emily Post Institute in Burlington, Vt., plenty of pre-Thanksgiving queries come in from people who hope to brush up on manners at the last minute. That kind of panic only adds to the pressure, said Peggy Post. She married into the family of Emily Post and recently published “Excuse Me, but I Was Next ...: How to Handle the Top 100 Manners Dilemmas” (HarperCollins, 2006).

A better approach is simply to make sure every action takes into consideration how another may feel, Mrs. Post said. It’s just what our parents told us all along: do unto others.

“The whole point is to make people feel comfortable, but to do what makes sense,” she said. “Etiquette is about applying consideration and respect and common sense.”

Susan Phillips Cohen, a social worker who lives in Brooklyn, relies on ritual and tradition to establish the tenor of her table. This year she will be one of a dozen or so people at her sister-in-law’s house in Staten Island. They will use the family china and make beloved dishes from childhood. That way guests can be reminded of the rules that go along with the holiday.

“Rituals are what help you get over difficult times, and they keep a lid on things, if you’re that kind of family,” she said. “There’s a code. We understand that we should try, that we should make the effort. Even if we haven’t been formally taught, we pick them up through the years.”

That’s why, before you know it, you find yourself reassuring the worried host that the turkey is most certainly not dry and leaping up to do the dishes.

One of Ms. Phillips Cohen’s favorite tricks for creating harmony is to give people something to do. It’s an axiom a professor of social work taught her years ago: action absorbs anxiety.

Just make sure it is a task someone can do well, advises Serena Bass, the Manhattan caterer. With nearly 25 years of experience catering events that included AOL’s holiday party and the actress Claire Danes’s birthday party, Ms. Bass has learned a little something about making parties work.

“People like to be told what to do, but they also like to feel successful at it,” she said. “So give them something they can do well. And remember that if you don’t assign a job to every person, they’ll amble off and get into trouble.”

And what if the conversation starts to turn sour? A host should know how to steer a conversation away from political implosions, personal attacks and off-color jokes.

“You have to use humor and think on your feet,” Mrs. DeVault said. If someone says something that seems designed to anger people, acknowledge the guest’s opinion, then make a joke about it and ease the conversation in another direction.

Mrs. Post is a little more proactive. She suggests polite but pointed private discussions ahead of time with potential troublemakers. And while it is not necessarily impolite to discuss politics or religion, a host should be prepared to defend a guest who falls under attack or appears uncomfortable.

Mrs. Post suggests language like this: “I really feel like this discussion is going nowhere and I’m sure poor Harry didn’t expect this.”

Then follow a time-honored custom: change the subject.

A good host must also handle with aplomb the guests who drift away from the table before dinner is over. Younger children can be dismissed to watch a special DVD or do an art project, but adults tempted away by the football game “must know they have to sit-stay,” Ms. Bass said. “Once they go out for a cigarette or they start texting, it’s all over.”

Clarity is key, she said. Announce ahead of time what the plan for the meal is. For example, say that appetizers will be served while the game is on, but the TV will be turned off for the meal. Better yet, offer to record the game and show it later.

Then, when the main part of the meal is over, ask one or two people by name to help clear, and ask the rest of the group to ready themselves for dessert.

So much for the hosts. But what about the guests? Ms. Loulan, the therapist, suggests bringing your boundaries to dinner. Make a plan for how you are going to handle uncomfortable situations. Give yourself permission to leave the room or to leave dinner early - as long as you prepare a thoughtful, polite excuse.

“If you can’t stay, call a friend to come and get you at a set time,” she said. “You know what’s going to happen, so act like it and make a plan to take care of yourself.”

For all of us, whether guest or host, the best tip of all might be one from Gregory McNamee, who has written dozens of books, including works on the folklore of South Africa and the natural history of an Arizona river. His latest is “Moveable Feasts: The History, Science and Lore of Food” (Praeger Publishers, 2006).

For thousands of years communal meals have been a key to building cultures. So relax and take the long view, he advises. Thanksgiving is just one more meal, and a bad one isn’t going to make or break civilization.

Besides, historians have recently concluded that the premise of Thanksgiving might be a lie.

“It turns out,” he said, “that the Indians were not so forthcoming, and the Pilgrims were not so grateful.”






Offline Ellemeno

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 05:06:04 pm »
Excuse Me, but I Was Next ...: How to Handle the Top 100 Manners Dilemmas? (HarperCollins, 2006).

I'm going to ask for this for Christmas.  I'm usually willing to speak up, but would love to have more guidance on how to do it where the other person and I can both feel comfortable with it.


One of Ms. Phillips Cohen?s favorite tricks for creating harmony is to give people something to do. It?s an axiom a professor of social work taught her years ago: action absorbs anxiety.

Just make sure it is a task someone can do well...?People like to be told what to do, but they also like to feel successful at it,? she said. ?So give them something they can do well. And remember that if you don?t assign a job to every person, they?ll amble off and get into trouble.?
...Then, when the main part of the meal is over, ask one or two people by name to help clear, and ask the rest of the group to ready themselves for dessert.

As the hostess tomorrow, I'm glad to be reminded that asking for help with all the work is a GOOD thing for everyone.

Thanks for posting this, Toastie.

:)


Offline delalluvia

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Re: So, what time is dinner?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2006, 11:32:38 pm »
Going to a relative's house as usual.  My mother became too ill to cook and neither me nor my sister care to do it.  It's usually fun there though.  Good food served buffet style and despite many years of offering to bring side dishes or help out, yet again, I'm bringing the cokes and coffee.

A guy on this other board I go to posted where he goes for Thanksgiving and it's just a horrible social disaster.  It's a bit of a funny read, guess we should all count our blessings:

To protect his identity, I won't post his moniker or the website:

I'm thankful for the opportunity to travel to the semi-annual celebration of my family's horrendous cooking.

We asked the kids what food we should bring to Grandmas for Thanksgiving and they both said Turkey. Mom made frozen chicken patties one year. I suggested that the grandkids would like a more traditional Turkey centerpiece, so the next year she made a big turkey, put it on the table, and served us reheated leftover turkey from the freezer. She cut up the fresh turkey after we got done eating and froze it for later.

Horrendous cooking is an inherited family trait. We went to the extended family Christmas one year and the main dish was chili. It went well with the mashed potatoes they asked us to bring and the stuffing my sister-in-law made.

And who could forget the oh so happy faces the relatives made as they tried to force down my grandma's pudding. Nothing says loving like baking instant pudding in the oven.

Last year on the way down to the family Christmas gathering, the 5 year old asked if we could stop at McDonald's and eat before we got there.