Back to topic - I guess in those days women only started to 'speak up'. I think in the cases of Jack and Lureen and Ennis and Alma, all were victims of society back then. More so, because they lived in very rural areas. I think in their case it was a several circumstances that severly paralized the lives of all four. I don't know when it became 'fashionable' for getting divorced, but I'm guessing in the early 70s it was still pretty much a rare thing (my parents divorced in 1973 or 74 and I was the only kid in class with divorced parents!). So kudos to Alma who did try to stop from being 'a victim'. Even though I think Alma and Lureen did 'get over' their loss, whereas Ennis never did!
Jude,
I agree with the women's position in society in those times, and your opinion on Alma. She was more of a gentle soul; I think most of the reason why she endured a situation that was making her miserable and probably destroyng her self-esteem, was because she didn't know how to let go of Ennis and she was afraid to be alone. She was the passive type (as opposed to Lureen). So, she waited until her resentmet for Ennis surpassed her love for him, and Monroe became a good enough prospect for a husband. Although I disagree with her ever getting over Ennis - remember her at the Thanksgiving dinner, when Ennis talks? I really think Ennis was the love of her life. I think the same about Lureen - I didn't like her character much, but I do believe that, in her self-centered way she truly loved Jack. JMO.
Originally, I opened that thread because I was annoyed at the people whose hearts bled more for the wives (besides the posts on the OB, the "Brokeback Mountain is ignoring the plight of the wives" article in Dallas Morning News really angered me) and who kept judging Ennis and Jack for allowing to get themselves tangled in marriages and destroying Alma and Lureen's lives. My point at that time was: if you're going to ignore the circumstances of Ennis and Jack's lives and judge them as if they really could do the right thing, then do the same for Alma and Lureen - then I proceded to show the flaws in the wives' behavior and reactions to their husbands' acts. It bothered me to see this double standard mentality when it came to the women. Ennis and Jack's positions in society were just as paralyzing as (actually more than) Alma and Lureen's, only for different reasons, so why sanctify the wives and looking at them as only victims of their husband's situations and the societal context? They weren't perfect, - they had flaws of their own too, just like Ennis and Jack did. So, let's talk about the wives' flaws too, I said. Let's treat the characters in this film equally.
Besides, my issue was more with Lureen. Like I stated in the old thread, she was materialistic, raised by materialistic parents, and her love of money took over her marriage form the getgo. I am quite convinced it wasn't Jack who pursued her (even if the thought of her family's wealth seemed like an incentive), but rather the other way around. There are many details and signs that show her aggressive, blinding, purpose driven mentality that distanced her from Jack and made her ignore things like her son's education, her husband's unhappyness, or not even suspect Jack might be having an affair.
I think Jack had no pride whatsoever telling off his father-in-law. He was miserable in so many ways already at that moment in his life, and this scene just shows how little impact he really has on people in his life (except for Ennis, though latter one ferociously keeps denying Jack's feelings towards him). I think the frustration of Jack in that scene is not even geared towards his father-in-law per se, but towards his own 'miserable' life.
You are so right, Jude.
I remember the thread from the TOB but I did not save it either. Sorry.
No problem, it leaves room for people to discuss this subject anew, instead of being reduced to mere readers. I keep thinking we should post the opening posts and the best replies of the good threads that were saved, on the OB, and let the new generations of (serious) posters add their input. In my opinion, it's the only good thing that came from the trolls destroying all those threads - no more "it's already been said, go read the threads before you post here" type of replies. I remember, in January, there was this kid who posted a really touching thread on how BBM broke his heart - everybody was replying, sending their love and telling him it was normal to have this reaction. Then he posted his opinion on how and why Jack died - an issue that has already been debated intensely by that time. I was about to add my input, when I saw several people replied, pretty much telling him to shut up and read the older threads. By his reply he seemd quite hurt and after that I never saw him again. All his posts disappeared right after that, I guess he left IMDB.
