Questions, hope not stoopid.....

[Jeff Wrangler]

Okay, tell you what, think about it a little for the next day or so, and tell me if you still think I'm overanalyzing this one.  Put yourself in her place, and feel what it might be like.  I mean if you want to.  If you don't want to, okay. 

I apologize. I shouldn't have criticized your analysis, merely said that I disagreed with it and why.

Perhaps with the passage of time LaShawn might have turned into another Lureen, but at the time we meet her and Randall, I think she's pretty much the way I described her.

Perhaps, at least partly, anyway, I may think this because I've taken LaShawn's prattling about Randall being an animal husbandry major, and meeting him at an Aggie game, and never imagining she'd end up in a poky little place like Childress to indicate that Randall is a fairly recent college graduate, and that she and Randall have not been married very long, not as long as Jack and Lureen, and they may even be considerably younger than Jack and Lureen. But maybe there is no real basis for me to think this. On the other hand, though, do we have anything more to go on than that Randall and LaShawn appear to be close in age to Jack and Lureen?

[Cameron]

Hi,

I definitely agree, I think that everyone is  to be pitied, except maybe Monroe.

I also think that even LaShawn could be pitied.

I do agree to that at least in the film, despite his creepiness, that Father Twist is somewhat sympathetic.

I do understand in the story he is different, but from the film I think that the only thing that he is upset about with Ennis is that Ennis and Jack never did come to the ranch and 'whip it into shape', and instead he is alone with Mrs. Twist in the crumbling ranch.

In fact, Mr. Twist reaction to me brings another layer of tragedy and sadness to Ennis.  I think that Ennis never knew before that Jack talked about to his parents, and I think that another reason the trip to Lightning Flats is so devastating to Ennis is that he realized that 'the sweet life' really could have been possible, but he never knew it before.  He didn't know that they could have move together there.

But then Ennis saw that Mrs.  Twist obviously would have accepted him, and that Mr. Twist would only have been happy to have all that help with the ranch, to me it also seemed that Mr. Twist wouldn't really have cared that Jack was with a man.

That is why LF is so tragic, because not only does Ennis realize all the love between him and Jack since on the mountain, but also that the sweet life really was possible.

My only question is why didn't Jack ever invite Ennis up there for just a weekend in all those years, so that Ennis could have seen it all might have been possible...

[Ellemeno]

My only question is why didn't Jack ever invite Ennis up there for just a weekend in all those years, so that Ennis could have seen it all might have been possible...

Yup, that's been one of my queries/gripes about Jack too.  Why keep telling his father about Ennis, but then neglect to mention to Ennis that he already actually HAS a place where they could have their little cow and calf operation.  I don't get you, Jack Twist.

[Cameron]

Yup, that's been one of my queries/gripes about Jack too.  Why keep telling his father about Ennis, but then neglect to mention to Ennis that he already actually HAS a place where they could have their little cow and calf operation.  I don't get you, Jack Twist.

Me neither.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Yup, that's been one of my queries/gripes about Jack too.  Why keep telling his father about Ennis, but then neglect to mention to Ennis that he already actually HAS a place where they could have their little cow and calf operation.  I don't get you, Jack Twist.

That's logical and sensible. Yet I think on Jack, at age 19, telling Ennis he couldn't wait to get his own spread--not, I think, his old man's spread--so that he wouldn't have to put up with Joe Aguirre's crap no more.

I can't imagine why Jack would talk to his father for years on years about bringing Ennis up to Lightning Flat, because I don't think he was really serious about it. I can't help but think that even if Ennis and Jack had gone up to Lightning Flat to lick the Twist ranch into shape, nothing they did would have been right to the old man--couldn't please that old man no how.

Funny thing, though. I take some comfort in believing Jack was just talking to his father and wasn't really serious--because I don't think he was any more serious when, shortly before he died, he talked about bringing his ranch neighbor from Texas up to Lightning Flat.

In both cases I think Jack was just thinkin' out loud.

[Ellemeno]

Jeff, I sure love how well you speak Brokeback.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Jeff, I sure love how well you speak Brokeback.

Takes a lot of practice, Little Darlin'! 

[ednbarby]

Marlb, you have some keen observational skills.  Really!

It always hits me how Ennis stands back to look at his handiwork on the mailbox just as he stood back to look at the tent, too.  That "Desperado" tribute on youtube that some kind soul posted here recently nails it.  There ain't nothing happy about that scene - "Freedom - well, that's just some people talkin'.  Your prison is walking through this world all alone."  That scene strikes me, too, as Ennis' attempt to make light, just for a moment, an awful situation.  Whistling in the dark, as it were.  It breaks my heart.

I think Jack would have mentioned he was talking about Lightning Flat to Ennis that night after their reunion if Ennis had not confided in him what he did.  And I agree with Jeff that from that point on, whenever Jack mentioned him to his father, he was just 'thinkin' out loud.'  Floating a trial balloon, as my father always says about one of my brothers.  I think Jack wanted his Dad to know he was worthy of the respect (and love?) of someone like Ennis - the respect and love he never got from him.  Of course what Ennis' Dad did was the most catastrophically damaging thing imaginable.  But making your son feel like he didn't deserve your love his whole life is right up there, too.

[Cameron]

Thanks Edna  

Your so kind  

I tried to watch the video, but I only have dial up so I wasn't able to see it, it never loaded.   Now I have to find a way, I always loved that song.

Anyway I don't know, you all have good points.  It is just that to me if Jack could be telling his father about Ennis, it could not have been such a big deal to just go up for the weekend.  And maybe if he approached it the right way Ennis would have gone.

I know I take a very Ennis point of view, but I think part of the whole problem with the relationship is that Jack was always pushing Ennis for big steps, moving, leaving Alma and the girl, the post divorce meeting etc. that Ennis never could be able to do.  I think Ennis could have done smaller things, like just going up for the weekend to LF, it just seems to me that should have realized that Ennis could simply not abandon his whole life, but maybe things could have worked out if it hand been done it the right way.

[ednbarby]

That's an excellent point, Marlb.  I think Jack just wasn't a baby steps kind of a guy.  He always dreamed big, and that in a way was his curse.  Central to the tragedy of their story, I think, is how they were always misunderstanding each other.  Ennis misunderstood Jack's nonchalance at leaving the mountain as not really caring about him, when actually Jack was so nonchalant because he didn't see it as the end to their relationship like Ennis did.  Ennis punched him out of his frustration with him for that, and then Jack misunderstood it as Ennis resenting him, perhaps for starting the relationship in the first place.  And it just snowballed from there.  They never truly communicated their feelings for each other to each other (even to themselves).  And it makes perfect sense that they didn't, unfortunately.  Straight men can barely talk to straight women about anything really intimate.  Put two men together who can't even come to terms with their own sexuality (Jack had less difficulty with it than Ennis, of course) and naturally there are going to be communication (or lack thereof) issues.

That's part of what makes this movie so perfect.  People misunderstand each other in real life.  Constantly.  And it usually leads to the unraveling of their relationships, if they're ever able to get a relationship off the ground in the first place.  Long-term relationships of any kind are just plain hard work.  Of course they're worth it when you love each other.  But when you can't even express that to one another, you're already on pretty shaky ground.