Author Topic: A Ninth Viewing Observation  (Read 129643 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #150 on: August 09, 2006, 02:05:31 pm »
Mikaela, that is a very astute analysis of Randall! You're right, I bet he was more comfortable right where he was than he would have been living on that bleak ranch and working alongside OMT.

If only Ennis knew all that! The sad thing is, Ennis probably won't even make the connection between "the other fella" and the unserious fling (with the rancher's wife) that Jack alluded to on their last night at the lake -- right BEFORE telling Ennis how much he missed him. So whether Jack was serious about Randall or not, Ennis will always have to entertain the possibility that he was, or maybe even that Jack had fallen in love with someone else. Even the shirts don't necessarily negate that possibility.

Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #151 on: August 09, 2006, 02:34:50 pm »
But then I've never really been able to buy that Randall would have been willing - or would have lasted *if* he was willing - to move up to LF. I base the impression of Randall on very little, true - but I base it on about the same that Jack knew by the time Randall came on to him outside the Benefit Dance place:

He's got a good education, an OK job, has got some money (and a wife who knows how to spend them.) He is intellectual rather than "mechanical". He's very straight-forward in coming on to Jack - first at the table and then afterwards, - directly in front of both their wives, too, which IMO is telling us something. My impression is that the reason he's circumspect at all in what he's saying while theyr're sitting on the bench is that he's not entirely certain that Jack is interested - Jack is sending out pretty conflicted signals after all.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I remembered reading somewhere about the unlikelihood that Randall would abandon his “cush gig” to have a life with Jack. After reading your note … I remembered it was you who said that. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Alternatively, why would Jack give up his comfortable lifestyle for Randall? Ennis … yes. Randall … I find it hard to believe. Shoot, as long as they were getting sexual gratification from each other … why rock the boat?


Mikaela, that is a very astute analysis of Randall! You're right, I bet he was more comfortable right where he was than he would have been living on that bleak ranch and working alongside OMT.

If only Ennis knew all that! The sad thing is, Ennis probably won't even make the connection between "the other fella" and the unserious fling (with the rancher's wife) that Jack alluded to on their last night at the lake -- right BEFORE telling Ennis how much he missed him. So whether Jack was serious about Randall or not, Ennis will always have to entertain the possibility that he was, or maybe even that Jack had fallen in love with someone else. Even the shirts don't necessarily negate that possibility.

I think that is one of the things that Ennis regrets the most … he could have had a good life with Jack. Yet, Ennis was unable to allow himself the freedom to love Jack publicly. The teachings of his father and societal homophobia were too inbred. Thus, Ennis was left with bitterness and despair. This was Ennis’ cross to bear.
Diane

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Offline 2robots4u

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #152 on: August 09, 2006, 02:55:14 pm »
Mikaela...Aggies is the nickname of Texas A & M (agriculture and mining), and from "agriculture" they came up with "Aggie" (much like "Brokies").  When you hear someone say "Aggie game", they are usually referring to football, but it could be basketball, baseball (assuming Texas A & M has either...some schools don't).  But I digress.  Did we hear Lashawn say the name of her school? Or do we assume she also went to A & M?  I'll watch that scene again later today and report...Hope this helps your college knowledge a little (I swear, I did not plan that rhyme)...Doug
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 02:57:03 pm by [email protected] »

Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #153 on: August 09, 2006, 03:15:16 pm »
Mikaela...Aggies is the nickname of Texas A & M (agriculture and mining), and from "agriculture" they came up with "Aggie" (much like "Brokies").  When you hear someone say "Aggie game", they are usually referring to football, but it could be basketball, baseball (assuming Texas A & M has either...some schools don't).  But I digress.  Did we hear Lashawn say the name of her school? Or do we assume she also went to A & M?  I'll watch that scene again later today and report...Hope this helps your college knowledge a little (I swear, I did not plan that rhyme)...Doug

Hey Doug ... LaShawn says she pledged "Tri Del" at SMU. I can surmise that Randall went to Texas A&M and she was there for an Aggie game. Why he even dated her is beyond my comprehension. Unless of course, as Mikaela pointed out, she was so "ditzy and self absorbed" he knew he could have sex with a man in the same room and she wouldn't even notice.  

Additional note: I just looked up "SMU" which stands for Southern Methodist University located in Dallas. Guess that makes sense!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 03:22:21 pm by dly64 »
Diane

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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #154 on: August 09, 2006, 03:22:14 pm »
I
I think that is one of the things that Ennis regrets the most … he could have had a good life with Jack. Yet, Ennis was unable to allow himself the freedom to love Jack publicly. The teachings of his father and societal homophobia were too inbred. Thus, Ennis was left with bitterness and despair. This was Ennis’ cross to bear.

In Ennis's mind he was protecting Jack as well as himself. I have a friend who lived in Wy in the 1960's and it was not a safe place to be out. Ennis regrets that it was not possable to  live with Jack not that he didn't. Matthew Shepard was murdered 14 years after Jack in the time line of the film.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 04:10:31 pm by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #155 on: August 09, 2006, 03:53:08 pm »
Hey Doug ... LaShawn says she pledged "Tri Del" at SMU. I can surmise that Randall went to Texas A&M and she was there for an Aggie game. Why he even dated her is beyond my comprehension. Unless of course, as Mikaela pointed out, she was so "ditzy and self absorbed" he knew he could have sex with a man in the same room and she wouldn't even notice.  

Additional note: I just looked up "SMU" which stands for Southern Methodist University located in Dallas. Guess that makes sense!

Indeed it does. I love how she tells Lureen she could have had any job she wanted in North Dallas, but she chose Neiman Marcus because when it comes to clothes she has no resistance at all.  ;D

Anybody know, does SMU play Texas A&M at football?
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #156 on: August 09, 2006, 04:15:09 pm »
I just looked up the SMU football schedule. Nope, not this year. (The Aggies are infamously obsessive about football, but their big rival is the University of Texas.)

Another thought about Randall... you know, the character is just designed to make Jack miss Ennis. For instance: Randall's got this college education... in Animal Husbandry. Randall went to college to learn the kind of stuff that Ennis learned from experience, starting in his teens when he dropped out of high school. (And Jack meets Randall when Randall's car is broken down, and Randall couldn't fix it. Contrast that with the way Ennis helped get Jack's truck started, there at the end of the Brokeback summer.)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 04:22:29 pm by nakymaton »
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #157 on: August 09, 2006, 04:52:06 pm »
Another thought about Randall... you know, the character is just designed to make Jack miss Ennis. For instance: Randall's got this college education... in Animal Husbandry. Randall went to college to learn the kind of stuff that Ennis learned from experience, starting in his teens when he dropped out of high school. (And Jack meets Randall when Randall's car is broken down, and Randall couldn't fix it. Contrast that with the way Ennis helped get Jack's truck started, there at the end of the Brokeback summer.)

Interesting observation. I especially love the contrast between Randall's broken down car and Jack's. Something else to consider!
Diane

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Offline Mikaela

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #158 on: August 09, 2006, 06:59:24 pm »
Quote
the character is just designed to make Jack miss Ennis.

Great observations! Yes, I think - designed to make him miss Ennis... and to simultaneously make him realize and consider the possibility inherent in the obvious contrasts. In the things you mention, and in the "bigger picture" of Randall seeming so much more at ease just where Ennis is tied the most in knots. All of it perhaps leading to Jack despairingly pondering whether Ennis may prove "too much" in the end - but the contrasting Randall might possibly be just the ticket (and more than available, to boot.)  :-\ :-\

« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 07:05:11 pm by Mikaela »

Offline welliwont

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #159 on: August 09, 2006, 07:38:21 pm »

(for all Ennis knows, the other fella is someone Jack met and fell in love with AFTER seeing Ennis the last time -- at least we have reason to think otherwise),


Jack went up to LF immediately following his last trip with Ennis.  In fact he told Ennis at the truck that he was gonna head up to LF for a day or two.

I have always assumed that when Jack's father told Ennis " then this spring he says he's gonna bring another fella up here to whup this ranch into shape, blah blah blah"  -  well I have always thought that Jack said this on that self-same visit to LF, the day after leaving Ennis for the last time.   Doesn't Ennis also think the same thing, that it was the very next day?

I have seen lots of posts inferring that this or that happened between the time of their last fishing trip and the time he told his parents about bringing up some other guy, but I believe that from what we've been shown/told that both trips were one and the same trip for Jack.  In other words he had the long drive up to LF to mull over his life and what to do about it, cried about Ennis I'm sure, and was trying to work himself up to doing something to fix a goddamn bitch of an unsatisfactory situation.

Is there a flaw in this logic, people?  Why do so many Brokies think that there was a time lapse between the two events?

Thinking of leaving Ennis, telling his parents about the change of plans, and actually accomplishing the feat of severing ties with his beloved Ennis are entirely different matters, I don't know if Jack would have actually succeeded in leaving his other half, but I think he was thinking on it, that is why he said what he said to his Pa, just like Diane has explained so well.


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