Ennis and Jake are homosexuals, bi-sexuals or??

[brokebackjack]

You know, I just thought of something: the age they were at their last meeting by the lake.

Very close to 40.

That is the age where bisexual men traditionally--REAL ones, not functional ones--tell themselves that it's time to settle down with one or the other. This may undermine my argument but thought I'd let you know. 40-45 is when they start really looking and the sex does not matter, the person does. Every Bi I know got hitched to one sex or the other at that time, or tried to. Even me, although THAT was such a total mess due to 'environmental circumstances' that it took BBM to get me to say screw this STFU and marry me. { ask front ranger she came to the wedding reception roflmao }

Maybe it doesn't undermine anything but it's a bit of info not many non bi's know. There really are NOT very many of us.

It's the ability to form the bond, not the sex---I can't emphasize that enough. Ever.

There is enough BS talked about bi guys as it is, usually using gay men on their way out as examples...when they most certainly ARE NOT.

[ednbarby]

This is an excellent point and one I had never considered, BBJ.  Thanks!

I come at it not knowing squat about being bisexual (or gay, for that matter).  I think of my two women friends who are regularly mistaken for being lesbians - not that there's anything wrong with that and they are not offended - because they each are well into their 40s and live alone and haven't been in a relationship with a man since they were in their 20s.  That is not by choice - it has just worked out that way.  But I know they're as hetero as the day is long.  I know all about their celebrity and real guy crushes and I know how lonely they both get for a male companion from time to time.  They don't miss the sex (hey, we're women, remember?) so much as the companionship.  Like you would say, BBJ, they really would like to form a lifelong bond with someone, and they'd like that someone to be a man.

[RossInIllinois]

I would say the film portrays both Jack and Ennis as Bi Sexual simply for the fact they do marry Women. Most truly Gay men I know are almost repulsed at the thought of having sex with women and this does not seem to be the case here. In fact we see Ennis having the straight sex in the film where as Jack's is "implied". Now there is ONE scene in the movie that is a bit  Queenie on Ennis' part and thats the "first snow" when he exits the pup tent with his blanket in the morning and "Girly" dances around in the snow when he wakes up. I feel Ang Lee potrays Jack as much more the "same sex" Predator in the film than Ennis. The opening sequence when Jack stares down Ennis standing next to the trailer with that Ooooh thats hot smirk on his face shows that early on, and then its Jack that writes Ennis the first post card not the other way around. It would appear without Jacks persistence the relationship would never have re kindled.

[brokebackjack]

Ross, read the last few posts.

REAL BISEXUALITY is not the sex.

FUNCTIONAL bisexuality is the sex. Many married gay men are labeled as bi when they are not, they are in the process of coming out. I think they find it less embaressing to say they are bi, but it skews how society and individuals look at really bi  males. Very frustrating, that.

Genuine bisexuality, again, is the ability to form ' the bond' regardless of the other person's sex, which does not matter.

Neither of those two had that ability.

[RossInIllinois]

Ross, read the last few posts.

REAL BISEXUALITY is not the sex.

FUNCTIONAL bisexuality is the sex. Many married gay men are labeled as bi when they are not, they are in the process of coming out. I think they find it less embaressing to say they are bi, but it skews how society and individuals look at really bi  males. Very frustrating, that.

Genuine bisexuality, again, is the ability to form ' the bond' regardless of the other person's sex, which does not matter.

Neither of those two had that ability.

I have to disagree, truly "Gay" men don't marry Women and have children. Bi-Sexuals do however. Now can Bi-sexual men later on decide to lead a same sex lifestyle? Yes of course. (Notice I called it a same sex lifestyle and not a Gay lifestyle) I do see a distinct difference in the two.

[brokebackjack]

I have to disagree completely.

Truly gay men most certainly do marry and have children.

All the time.

Such a statement completely bewilders me.There are men all over the forum who have married and had children who would be as baffled as I am at someone who is apparently gay denying this....fact.These guys are GAY, not bi, and would tell you so in 2 milleseconds flat.

I HAVE met some extreme gay men who could as easily throw up as perform cunningilus; to tell you the truth I actually KNOW one who threw up while performing cunningulus, with god only knows what mental  trauma to the girl involved.

The quantity and quality of the abuse to which he was subjected by GAY MEN--some of them INCREDIBLY gay men, one of whom was actually in drag as he ripped this sad sad fellow a new one--was so memorable that someday I may just write it all down and see if I can get it published roflmao. What was startling was that the sort of gay man 'who nobody would know about unless he told them', many of who HAD been in marriages, were the nicest about it. They kept their hilarity private. The others---including a man so gay nobody knew how he could EVER have fathered a child, but father him he did!--ripped him to bits. I mean absolutely destroyed him, it was almost painful to hear no matter that it was incredibly funny.  And deserved. I should perhaps mention here that some of the biggest femmes alive incredulously asked this guy what sort of MAN he was, that he couldn't even preform cunningulus without disgracing himself, and by extension, the gay world.The damned fool just kept repeating his, umm, faux pas and expected to be told things like 'you pooooor pooor boy, how disgusting, how...how...'.

Instead he got the opposite and he deserved it. To sleep with a girl--quite a lovely nice one, too!--and then throw up all over her clitoris is more then bad manners Ross! To compound the matter by telling her that her@#$%^& was disgusting and then barfing all over her breasts as well is simply too much, he had his ass handed to him and the girl involved was sent to a beach house with a few gay men to recover.

She did. They took care of their friend.

Nicely.

As for the fellow who threw up all over her vulva, he eventually moved. His reputation as both male and homo was completely destroyed, it followed him everywhere and he to my knowledge henever figured out that it's not NICE to puke on someones mons generis.  He was so dense he kept blaming her for seducing him, no matter that she said he asked her, and no matter that at age 30 you get seduced when you WANT to get seduced.  He swished his way into semi-legend and was given a deplorably apt nickname which stuck to him like glue. To this day, nigh on 20 years later, you can ask whatever happened to @#$@!$^&* and many many gay people in NYC will know exactly who you mean.

One doesn't puke on a nice girls' vulva in NY and have it go unavenged.

[RossInIllinois]

Confuses you how? I see it as clear as day. The Married ones are Bi. Its just that simple,  If you are able to have a relationship with a Woman you are not 100% same sex exclusive or "Gay".  The word "Gay" is used in our society today to define an individual that is 100% same sex orientation IMO.

[ednbarby]

I know a gay man who was married for many years and has a couple of beautiful children.  He came out about 25 years ago and has been in a committed relationship for the last 20 with his partner.  He and his ex-wife are on decent terms to this day and even get together once and a while with their new partners, and he has a great relationship with his kids.

So, sorry, Ross, but to say that no truly gay man would ever marry and have kids is just plain inaccurate.  This guy would never characterize himself as bi - he's never been interested in any other woman since his wife and honestly wasn't all that interested in her - just had a good friendship with her 'with benefits' (from her point of view only).  If you were to ask him - and even if you weren't - he'd say "I am gay, gay, GAY.  And proud of it."  BBJ is right - many men who truly are gay just characterize themselves as "bi" because it's more socially acceptable.  I know a couple of those men, also.  And that's a shame every way around.

[brokebackjack]

But they are NOT bi. Most of them are coming out, married before they figured it out. Ask them when they have completed the process if they are capable of feeling what they feel for a man the same way they feel for a woman. They will likely say there is no comparison.

This is just what i bang my head on the wall about, what every bi guy I know gets so frustrated at.

WE are not what you think of as BI, using any criteria but the one bi males use among themselves. The guys you describe as bi are functionally bisexual as regards sex and emotionally attached to men. They may think they love their wives but when they realise that they are gay, they leave....if they were really bi it would not matter..

[ednbarby]

Confuses you how? I see it as clear as day. The Married ones are Bi. Its just that simple, and not  100% "same sex" as "Gay" implies.

I must add that you, like whiteoutofthemoon, seem to be defining "gay" as what one does instead of what one is.  If that were the only way to define people, my two aforementioned women friends would be "asexual" since they haven't had sex in 10 years or more.  But the truth is, they'd love to be in a relationship with a man, and part of that would be being intimate with him.  Asexual is not what they are, it's what they happen to be doing right now.  Heterosexual is what they are.