Author Topic: What is your religion?  (Read 24202 times)

Offline littledarlin

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 01:23:10 am »
I had no religious upbringing whatsoever, for which I am now thankful. Oh, except I was baptized because everyone else in the family is religious (catholic), and my parents gave in to that.
 I have a real problem with organised churches or cults, and a problem with the idea of there being a god. I have always been an atheist, agnostic at best sometimes, but I picked "Buddhist" because I wanted to say which sort of spirituality I'd be closest to.


wow, isabelle.  we are spiritually identical, it seems.

i identify myself as agnostic, but usually lean towards atheist.  but i do identify with many buddhist ideals, and respect them, and appreciate them, but would never convert or consider practicing rituals.  i live my life trying to be the best person i can be, and that's all i think is expected of us.

i wasn't raised a certain way, although certain family members tried to sway me when i was much younger, but it didn't work.  i've always been turned off by it, even since before i could understand it.  i wasn't baptized either.  my family is part catholic, part protestant, part pseudo-christian, part atheist. 

Quote
She thought the B'hai B'hai were pretty good, but apparently they were only pro-women on paper and not in actual practice.

del, i've heard this as well.  but any religion that was not founded in recent times is most likely anti-feminist.  i'm a feminist myself, and any religion that would in any way consider women a lesser being makes me sick.  buddhism doesn't realy acknowledge women.  i'm not sure how present-day is, but you know, buddha is male, monks are male, so that immediately turns me off.  just the thought that a church would sooner ordain a child molester, as long as he is male, than any woman, is baffling even in these times.  what's more baffling is how widely accepted the practice is, and goes unquestioned..

i also have respect for pagans, as far as religion goes.  i mean nature is all around us.  we are nature.  makes more sense to me than worshipping aliens or supreme beings and then destroying everything they supposedly created in their name...
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Offline isabelle

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 02:24:29 am »
Isabelle,


I read a nasty quote from the Buddha about women once, but I couldn't trace the source, so I can't say if Buddhism is basically good for women or not.

A friend of mine is very feminist as well, brought up in a Catholic school and she shopped around for a religion.  She thought the B'hai B'hai were pretty good, but apparently they were only pro-women on paper and not in actual practice.

To tell the truth, I was expecting to come across something nasty about women from Buddhism, sooner or later! I'll try to research that, or if you find it, please let me know.

And about B'hai B'hai being "pro-women on paper and not in actual practice", well...sounds like a few men I've known! Those who DARED be pro-women, albeit on paper that is!
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Offline isabelle

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 02:40:17 am »

wow, isabelle.  we are spiritually identical, it seems.

i identify myself as agnostic, but usually lean towards atheist.  but i do identify with many buddhist ideals, and respect them, and appreciate them, but would never convert or consider practicing rituals. 


That's right littledarlin, we seem to be identical in several ways (music too). I would never practise rituals either, and I cannot imagine myself converting to anything, religion-wise. I also agree that seeing only males as Buddhist monks was a bad sign, but all I got interested in was the Buddhist outlook on life, NOT the rituals. Now it seems even the Buddha didn't think too high of women either. I think I'll just keep worshipping Brokeback Mountain.

(And I still haven't worked out how to quote/unquote!).
Littledarlin, if on top of all the rest you are a feminist, then... :-* :-* ;D
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 02:48:10 am by isabelle »
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 07:28:11 pm »

To tell the truth, I was expecting to come across something nasty about women from Buddhism, sooner or later! I'll try to research that, or if you find it, please let me know.

I can't find my book with the actual quote, but here are some bits:

"The Buddha continually warned his disciples against the sinister guile of women, and women were not allowed in the Sangha.  Indeed it was very difficult for a woman to become a Buddhist during this time.

Later Buddha did allow women to become a part of his followers, but many restrictions were placed on the nuns and they were subject to the authority of the monks at all times.  The Buddha is quoted as saying, "A nun, though she be a hundred years old, must reverence a monk, rise on meeting him, salute him with clasped hands and honor him with her respects, although he may have been received into the order only that day."  Some today argue that the Buddha was only communicating on a level his followers could understand and he went against the male chauvinism in his culture."

"In Sri Lanka, the main faction of the religion that is practiced is Theravada Buddhism, one of the oldest and most traditional of the various sects of Buddhism. In the debate for equality it has proven to be the most stubborn, maintaining its position that women should be subordinate to men. While the Buddha has specifically taught Buddhists that women and men are equal in his or her ability to achieve enlightenment, certain Buddhist texts and prejudices have subordinated women, and in some cases actually prevented them from enlightenment. In its teachings Theravada Buddhism associates women with immorality, defilement, seduction, falsehood and desire. (Shanshan Du, 1) This depiction of women in early Buddhism is partially due to societal viewpoints at the time of the Buddha, and the difficulty priests had with celibacy. Because of this negative perception, women have been hindered in their ability to practice Buddhism at the same level as Buddhist monks. The order of Bhikkhunis (Buddhist nuns), founded by the Buddha, no longer exists in Sri Lanka. This is a tragic occurrence, and women face many challenges trying to restart it."

Offline isabelle

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2006, 07:43:15 pm »
Thanks Del. It's the same story over and over again, isn't it? *SIGH*
And if the monks have the obligation to remain celibate (I wasn't 100% sure about that), ok, then that's me. Bye bye Buddhism. Not that I thought of becoming one for real real,  really!
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2006, 07:54:12 pm »
Thanks Del. It's the same story over and over again, isn't it? *SIGH*
And if the monks have the obligation to remain celibate (I wasn't 100% sure about that), ok, then that's me. Bye bye Buddhism. Not that I thought of becoming one for real real,  really!

Yeah, pathetic isn't it?  I don't suggest you read St. Augustine's writings on women on a full stomach lest you lose it.  And these guys are venerated!  You always know when a religion was invented by men. ::)

Offline littledarlin

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2006, 07:57:45 pm »
And if the monks have the obligation to remain celibate (I wasn't 100% sure about that), ok, then that's me. Bye bye Buddhism.

lol amen to that. 

isn't it grand the way society always blames women?  denying women equality because they might tempt men, just their very presence, not counting their actions.  as if women can't be tempted?  as if it is expected of men to not be able to control their urges?  please. 

again, there is no religion that will suit everyone.  i think it's ok to believe certain aspects, but there is no right religion.  we don't need a religion to respect eachother and the world around us, it's called being HUMAN. 
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Offline isabelle

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2006, 08:14:25 pm »

Yeah, pathetic isn't it?  I don't suggest you read St. Augustine's writings on women on a full stomach lest you lose it. 

I HAVE, I HAVE!! Hor-ri-ble! Yes, invented by men indeed (sorry you guys who are not like them, talking to you Andrew :-*)
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2006, 08:27:17 pm »
Quote
isn't it grand the way society always blames women?  denying women equality because they might tempt men, just their very presence, not counting their actions.  as if women can't be tempted?  as if it is expected of men to not be able to control their urges?  please.

Men's urge to control is very evident in religion.  I don't know why that is.  Power I suppose?  That a religion is just a reflection of the patriarchal society and not anything divinely inspired?

One of ironic favorite stories - maybe it's an urban myth, dunno - was when Golda Meir was still a local politician.  There had been a rash of muggings, people getting hurt and so the suggestion was made that there be a curfew for women.  To protect them.

Golda jumped in with a not-so-fast.  Hey, it wasn't women who were doing the mugging.  If there was going to be a curfew, it should be for the men!

Well of course, the idea of a curfew then dropped like a lead balloon.  What?  Men restrict their movement in society?  Unthinkable!    ::)

Offline isabelle

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2006, 02:09:32 am »
Golda jumped in with a not-so-fast.  Hey, it wasn't women who were doing the mugging.  If there was going to be a curfew, it should be for the men!

Well of course, the idea of a curfew then dropped like a lead balloon.  What?  Men restrict their movement in society?  Unthinkable!    ::)

I love this story! I am a teacher, and only last week, I had an interesting discussion with some pupils (16-17 year-olds), girls, trying to explain that it was frightening for me to hear them say: 'well yeah, if a girl gets raped and she was walking on her own at night and wearing provocative-looking clothes, then she should have known better'! For once, I managed to remain calm, and tried to lmake them understand that they were ultimately justifying imposing the headscarf and burqa on women. Which shocked them. But in the end it began to dawn on them.
I can't believe that 20-30 years later, we still have this kind of opinion, from GIRLS! But then, at least in France, I think the way women are considered in society is going backwards, not forward. And I am also sorry to say that it is due to the growing presence of Islam here, coupled with a surge of the hard nut Catholics who want to show they are there too and won't leave all the space to the Muslims!
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