What is your religion?

[Aussie Chris]

I can't believe that 20-30 years later, we still have this kind of opinion, from GIRLS! But then, at least in France, I think the way women are considered in society is going backwards, not forward. And I am also sorry to say that it is due to the growing presence of Islam here, coupled with a surge of the hard nut Catholics who want to show they are there too and won't leave all the space to the Muslims![/color]

Hi girls, do you mind if I stuck my nose in your conversation?  Being male after all.  I actually vote for women to take over the world.  I'm sick of the mess that men have made of things and I think they've had their turn in the driver's seat.  Basically, I think the vast majority of men are misogynistic on one level or another, and it reflects in all fields of life.  It's not that women aren't allowed in religious hierarchy because they may tempt the men, it's because men see them as inferior.  Since when did it become the men's prerogative to think that?  And why do women let them?  There are more women on the planet then men, so how is it that men dominate?

Ok, before you have to ask, I have this view because I was mostly raised by my mother and three sisters, and between them if there was any chauvinism in me it was beaten out at an early age.  Even though I'm gay and prefer the company of men in all things sexual, for everything else in life give me a woman!  My best friend is a woman and I spend most of my time with them in all things spiritual and social - alas this also probably why I don't get much sex.  <sigh>

[delalluvia]

I can't believe that 20-30 years later, we still have this kind of opinion, from GIRLS! But then, at least in France, I think the way women are considered in society is going backwards, not forward. And I am also sorry to say that it is due to the growing presence of Islam here, coupled with a surge of the hard nut Catholics who want to show they are there too and won't leave all the space to the Muslims![/color]

Hi girls, do you mind if I stuck my nose in your conversation?  Being male after all.  I actually vote for women to take over the world.  I'm sick of the mess that men have made of things and I think they've had their turn in the driver's seat.  Basically, I think the vast majority of men are misogynistic on one level or another, and it reflects in all fields of life.  It's not that women aren't allowed in religious hierarchy because they may tempt the men, it's because men see them as inferior.  Since when did it become the men's prerogative to think that?  And why do women let them?  There are more women on the planet then men, so how is it that men dominate?

Ok, before you have to ask, I have this view because I was mostly raised by my mother and three sisters, and between them if there was any chauvinism in me it was beaten out at an early age.  Even though I'm gay and prefer the company of men in all things sexual, for everything else in life give me a woman!  My best friend is a woman and I spend most of my time with them in all things spiritual and social - alas this also probably why I don't get much sex.  <sigh>

How is it you turn out so well and Tom Cruise turn out so controllling?  Cruise, too, was raised by his mother and sisters and talks about having such 'great resepct' for them.  Then he controls Katie into the ground.

This is a huge topic and I definitely want to say more, but I must rush off to work.

[Aussie Chris]

How is it you turn out so well and Tom Cruise turn out so controllling?  Cruise, too, was raised by his mother and sisters and talks about having such 'great resepct' for them.  Then he controls Katie into the ground.

Gee, great, I actually have something in common with that twerp?  Having "great respect" is a pretty shallow admision - I have "great respect" for cockroaches and scorpions for being able to survive conditions we couldn't begin to imagine, but that doesn't make them great models to base our lives on.  No I always liked the amazon woman thing: women in charge (I'd sit at your feet adoringly) and all the straight males can do all the work that doesn't require decision making.

[isabelle]

I always liked the amazon woman thing: women in charge (I'd sit at your feet adoringly) and all the straight males can do all the work that doesn't require decision making.

Oh Chris, NOW you're talking! I'll say amen to that way of organizing society!
Thanks for your support, Chris. But the question of 'why don't women react/take over, when they are more numerous' is a very long one to discuss, and not sure I have an answer.

[Shuggy]

I've been interested in Buddism for a little while, because from what I've heard (I haven't looked into it that much yet) it does agree with a lot of the things I believe in (like Isabelle said, lack of judgement). A friend of mine wants me to go on a buddist retreat with him and I'm excited about it.

I will however, probably, always believe in God (or a God). There has to be something there. And I am often surprised by the beauty of faith.

I have time for Buddhism, but like all of these, it can be misused. I knew a couple of Buddhists who didn't seem to care for people much. I think they were misapplying the doctrine of non-attachment. To me, non-attachement means not to be selfishly attached to material possessions (becasue all things decay, die, fade away - or get pinched), but that doesn't rule out healhty concern for others.

In the same way, I like the pan-divinity of Hinduism, but not the fatalism that makes social progress unnecessary, or the very material images of the manifestations of the Godhead (though Ganesha is cute and Hanuman is admirable). My man has just been reading the Bhagavad-Gita, and I can never come to terms with its justification for warfare.

[Aussie Chris]

I have time for Buddhism, but like all of these, it can be misused. I knew a couple of Buddhists who didn't seem to care for people much. I think they were misapplying the doctrine of non-attachment. To me, non-attachement means not to be selfishly attached to material possessions (becasue all things decay, die, fade away - or get pinched), but that doesn't rule out healhty concern for others.

He he, that's funny getting non-attachment confused with disconnectedness.  Actually non-attachment (craving and aversion) are based on the principle of impermanence, and that desire leads to misery.  Ennis had it right when he said "if you don't got nothing you don't want nothing", although I fear that he took that one a little too far in letting Jack go.

[isabelle]

My man has just been reading the Bhagavad-Gita, and I can never come to terms with its justification for warfare.

I'd be interested to know what that is, shuggy!

[delalluvia]

I'M GENERALIZING HORRIBLY.  I UNDERSTAND FULLY THAT ALL MEN ARE NOT LIKE THIS...

I can't believe that 20-30 years later, we still have this kind of opinion, from GIRLS! But then, at least in France, I think the way women are considered in society is going backwards, not forward. And I am also sorry to say that it is due to the growing presence of Islam here, coupled with a surge of the hard nut Catholics who want to show they are there too and won't leave all the space to the Muslims![/color]

Isabelle,

I'm with you in the sinking feeling that in some places, women's rights seems to be marching backwards for every step forward.  I don't know why that is.  Power again, I suppose.  Whenever men feel threatened in society or downtrodden, they always take it out on someone weaker than themselves.  For every woman who wants to be considered a person, her rights recognized, her feelings considered, there is a man who doesn't want the headache and competition of someone else's needs.

It's a lot easier on a person to be a dictator.  He gets his needs met and doesn't really have to worry about anyone elses.  And if he can get religion to back him up, all the better to keep her down.

Almost every single religion on this planet was written by men and -hey whaddaya know! - every god thinks it's a divine thing to keep women in the home and taking care of the kids and a man's needs.

I noticed that when women write religions - modern religions - there is never anything about the gods saying a woman should stay in the home and be subservient if she doesn't want to.

Go figure.

Hiya Aussie,

It's not that women aren't allowed in religious hierarchy because they may tempt the men, it's because men see them as inferior.  Since when did it become the men's prerogative to think that?

Basically, from what I've discovered, it all comes down to a stupidly immature playground attitude.  A man considers himself superior to a woman because he could beat her up in a fistfight.  Power.  She can be eloquent, intelligent, a problem-solver, etc, but when it comes right down to it, she can't MAKE him do anything he doesn't want to.  She can't enforce her desires and wants.

He can.  Hence, he's the more powerful and thus, superior.

And why do women let them?  There are more women on the planet then men, so how is it that men dominate?

Mental wiring.  Men think they're dominating.  Women think we're cooperating.

[Aussie Chris]

Mental wiring.  Men think they're dominating.  Women think we're cooperating.

Oooh, like this line.  Not sure I get it in a way that I should though.  It's funny that all of the people I look up to spiritually in my life are women.  This has taken many years of paying attention and listening, but all the great "OMG you're right" moments in my life took a female to make me realise them.  I don't even know why, but I think it's got something to do with the fact that (now) I'd rather be happy than right/superior any day.  Maybe that's not that far from your mental wiring line after all?

[YaadPyar]

Mmmmmmm - I'm just going to have to go with this:  my religion is peace.