Author Topic: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?  (Read 8314 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2007, 10:28:40 am »
Thanks Phillip Dampier!

Your details in your comment are very interesting!!

I never did write the words ranch hands, but always used the word cowboy(s), to describe
either Ennis and/or Jack, in the Brokeback Mountain film!! You are waking me up with the expression: ranch hands!! And did Annie ever used the word cowboy in the story?

Annie did set Jack in the rodeo, so so Jack is then a cowboy? Most rodeo men consider themselves ranch hands or cowboys??

Please explain this too:
Lee managed to convince them by literally putting down fake rubber mats covered with grass where the sheep congregated...
...
Those rubber mats covered with grass, they were for the wild sheep only??
Didn't Lee use both wild and domestic sheep?? But had to separate them,
as that was/is my impression I made somehow in order Lee did not to affect either kinds of sheep with potential deseases??


As far as digital sheep, yes that was made, and some images of that were added in some scenes (HOW MANY?? Even one lake was taken out and fake sheep by digital (computorized) drawings were added instead to that area as a grassy spot for sheep, did you know?? And that digital work, it was made in Canada, by a co.; you know which one?? If you want to see that which is highly interesting, you will get this internet clip, as I had found such before someone gave it to me on one of my threads. But I do not know if any other such or similar clips exists, do you?? Or other cos used too for digital additions?

Glad of your news Phillip Dampier,
and I await your comments,

hugs!!



Offline Artiste

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2007, 10:31:10 am »
Thanks RossInIllinois!!

You say this about (Jack and Ennis):
They were to busy Stemmin the Rose to bother with hay.
...

Don't you think that playing in the hay could have been a scene??

Hugs!!

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2007, 12:21:11 pm »
Thanks RossInIllinois!!

You say this about (Jack and Ennis):
They were to busy Stemmin the Rose to bother with hay.


...

Don't you think that playing in the hay could have been a scene??

Hugs!!



Oh sure!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2007, 12:51:34 pm »
Thanks RossInIllinois!

Do you think Ennis and Jack had hay in the tent in those two first sex/love scenes??

Hugs!

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2007, 01:06:42 pm »
Artiste, have you ever handled hay?  Rolled around in it, played in it, et cetera? 

The fact is, hay can be kind of rough, splintery and pokey!  Also rather dusty and buggy.  (Note that when Ennis throws it to the animals, he's wearing gloves.)  Not the kind of thing you want to roll around in naked!

The whole idea of making love in hay is just a silly fantasy-stereotype that I imagine few people have actually done.  We as non-cowboys (or non-ranch hands, that is) may fantasize about it.  But guys like Jack + Ennis had few romantic illusions about hay since they worked with it all the time.

A nice soft bedroll would therefore be much more appealing!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 01:15:13 pm by LauraGigs »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2007, 01:43:04 pm »
Proulx doesn't want her story mixed up in the American popular culture myth of what represents a cowboy.
...  By trying to avoid (and it frankly didn't work) the "cowboy" label, Proulx was trying to stay real, and away from doing battle with the pop culture iconography of the cowboy.  The challenge of the image of the cowboy would be seen by all the usual "culture warrior" suspects as another attempt to usurp and destroy their cultural icons and images.

Very informative post, Phillip! I didn't know all that about the grass mats, etc.

But I'm surprised that Proulx's intention was NOT to have her story take on the cultural mythology surrounding cowboys. To me, part of the story's power derives from that very thing, that cowboys are seen as the ultimate "macho" icon and therefore widely presumed straight. I've always assumed that undermining those assumptions was Proulx's deliberate and brilliant intention.

I know technically Jack and Ennis are not cowboys, but close enough. If everything else were the same about the story and movie, except that the men were letter carriers or accountants or dentists or bus drivers, I think something would be lost.



Offline Artiste

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2007, 03:11:19 pm »
Thanks ineedcrayons!

Yes, I did too find what Phillip Dampier about those grass mats a surprise!!

Ineedcrayons you say this:
I know technically Jack and Ennis are not cowboys, but close enough.
...

May I say the same as you here, as Ennis and Jack are like cowboys to me, as well as ranch hands!!
Ennis and Jack, they both did rodeos??

Hugs!!

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2007, 07:04:54 pm »
Very informative post, Phillip! I didn't know all that about the grass mats, etc.

But I'm surprised that Proulx's intention was NOT to have her story take on the cultural mythology surrounding cowboys. To me, part of the story's power derives from that very thing, that cowboys are seen as the ultimate "macho" icon and therefore widely presumed straight. I've always assumed that undermining those assumptions was Proulx's deliberate and brilliant intention.

I know technically Jack and Ennis are not cowboys, but close enough. If everything else were the same about the story and movie, except that the men were letter carriers or accountants or dentists or bus drivers, I think something would be lost.

In this case, she wanted authenticity over folklore, which is why she went with ranch hands.  In one of the first specials we'll have on Radio 2, I'll be including a feature interview with Proulx where she gets seriously annoyed with the interviewer the moment he says "cowboys."  She has been very insistent on this point.  She got the idea of the story after sitting in a Wyoming bar/restaurant where an obviously gay couple came in to be served.  The moment they left, the owner/bartender started making a lot of loud, disparaging comments about the couple, which Proulx overheard.  The contemplation of what life must have been like for someone growing up in Wyoming and confronting their homosexuality sparked the idea for the story.  She wanted the two guys to be working class/poor and being otherwise considered "straight" in their interests and attitudes.

She never intended to make a sweeping societal statement or to bust stereotypes.  She wanted to tell a story based on what life must be like for those who, like Jack and Ennis, grew up in a culture and society that has few, in any, resources for gay people.  In the 1960s, in all but the largest cities, the issue was rarely, if ever discussed.  Even into the early 1970s, there was a moratorium on exploring the issue.  Remember shows like Ironside and Streets of San Francisco?  How many gay folks were portrayed in those shows set in a city hip deep in them?  :)

Imagine you're in rural Wyoming in the 1960s, and it's amazing they even knew what words to use to deny themselves.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2007, 07:30:15 pm »
The contemplation of what life must have been like for someone growing up in Wyoming and confronting their homosexuality sparked the idea for the story.  She wanted the two guys to be working class/poor and being otherwise considered "straight" in their interests and attitudes.

She never intended to make a sweeping societal statement or to bust stereotypes.  She wanted to tell a story based on what life must be like for those who, like Jack and Ennis, grew up in a culture and society that has few, in any, resources for gay people.

Oh, OK. Well, that makes sense, too. And of course it's natural that Annie would set her story in a Western millieu, since that's what she writes about, and ranch hand is a typical working-class Western job. And having them take a summer job together in an isolated sheep-grazing area is a good way to get the plot going.

Still, I don't mind if the story undermines overmythologized icons at the same time. If John Wayne is turning in his grave (as a few Hollywood types commented around last year's academy awards), it doesn't bother me. Figuratively speaking, I mean; I don't necessarily have anything against John Wayne, specifically.  ;D

Offline Artiste

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Re: Where is the hay fun in the Brokeback Mountain film?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2007, 09:48:23 pm »
Thanks Phillip Dampier!

Very, very interesting is your comment here:
In this case, she wanted authenticity over folklore, which is why she went with ranch hands.  In one of the first specials we'll have on Radio 2, I'll be including a feature interview with Proulx where she gets seriously annoyed with the interviewer the moment he says "cowboys."  She has been very insistent on this point.  She got the idea of the story after sitting in a Wyoming bar/restaurant where an obviously gay couple came in to be served.  The moment they left, the owner/bartender started making a lot of loud, disparaging comments about the couple, which Proulx overheard.  The contemplation of what life must have been like for someone growing up in Wyoming and confronting their homosexuality sparked the idea for the story.  She wanted the two guys to be working class/poor and being otherwise considered "straight" in their interests and attitudes.

She never intended to make a sweeping societal statement or to bust stereotypes.  She wanted to tell a story based on what life must be like for those who, like Jack and Ennis, grew up in a culture and society that has few, in any, resources for gay people.
...

When did Annie say she was in that bar where she say two gay guys? May I ask?
And when was that interview done?

So great to get your news,

hugs!!