Movie News

[Jeff Wrangler]

I think movies should be evaluated within the categories or genres they belong to. I disagree with the selection of Superman 2 as one of the best 100 greatest American-made Movies. But Shrek within the category of animated movies is not bad. It is actually a good movie but you cannot compare it with Brokeback Mountain for example, because they do not belong to the same group or genre. That's the problem with the Oscars. They put movies movies of different categories and genres to compete for the same award. For Best Picture, for instance. It's unfair, IMO.

Now, THAT approach, categories or genres, makes sense! Thanks, Natali! 

[moremojo]

Now, THAT approach, categories or genres, makes sense! Thanks, Natali! 

On the face of, it does seem a sensible approach, but there are films that cannot be easily categorized, or transcend the genre(s) in which they fall. The original 1973 The Wicker Man, for example, can justly be called a horror movie and a musical (albeit an offbeat one). And most of the very greatest movies I know of fall outside genre or transcend them. Brokeback Mountain would be a good example of this: It's a Western (at least in one sense) whose ultimate meaning lies far beyond the boundaries and expectations of that genre.

I don't know of a completely "good" way to arrive at these attempts at consensus. In fact, in these kinds of polls, I'm always more interested in individual responses than in the group results.

[Jeff Wrangler]

On the face of, it does seem a sensible approach, but there are films that cannot be easily categorized, or transcend the genre(s) in which they fall. The original 1973 The Wicker Man, for example, can justly be called a horror movie and a musical (albeit an offbeat one). And most of the very greatest movies I know of fall outside genre or transcend them. Brokeback Mountain would be a good example of this: It's a Western (at least in one sense) whose ultimate meaning lies far beyond the boundaries and expectations of that genre.

I don't know of a completely "good" way to arrive at these attempts at consensus. In fact, in these kinds of polls, I'm always more interested in individual responses than in the group results.

Picky, picky, picky. 

For myself, I wasn't really thinking any deeper than, say, thinking that Brokeback Mountain shouldn't be evaluated in the same context as, say, Fantasia.

But your point about films that defy or cross the bounds of easy categorization is well taken. 

[opinionista]

On the face of, it does seem a sensible approach, but there are films that cannot be easily categorized, or transcend the genre(s) in which they fall. The original 1973 The Wicker Man, for example, can justly be called a horror movie and a musical (albeit an offbeat one). And most of the very greatest movies I know of fall outside genre or transcend them. Brokeback Mountain would be a good example of this: It's a Western (at least in one sense) whose ultimate meaning lies far beyond the boundaries and expectations of that genre.

I don't know of a completely "good" way to arrive at these attempts at consensus. In fact, in these kinds of polls, I'm always more interested in individual responses than in the group results.

BBM is not a western. It falls under drama and romance. Romance can be a sub category of drama, for example. It depends on how the categories are defined.

However, you are right not all movies are easily categorized but that's not the usual. Movies tend to fall into one category or two. They aren't universally themed.

[nakymaton]

*reads list on Meryl's link*

*goes off to burn Paul Haggis in effigy again*

Interesting that they mention specifically that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not on the list, because it's not an American-made film, but they don't mention BBM. (Is CTHD officially the movie that Ang Lee is known best for? I know it made more money than BBM, and I love both movies, but... well, BBM is amazing. I saw CTHD twice in the theater. I saw BBM six times.)

I've been avoiding the awards hoopla this year, but... well, does it ever strike anyone that the entertainment media really avoids talking about BBM, unless it's in the context of gay rights? Like it can only be discussed as a gay movie, not as simply a GREAT movie.

(That said, I want to see the LotR movies rated higher than Star Wars... )

[moremojo]

BBM is not a western. It falls under drama and romance.

I think the film can arguably be called a Western, at least in the sense of it dealing with Western rural life (albeit in the modern era), and it's certainly a work that is haunted by the mythos of that genre. I was watching Nicholas Ray's 1954 classic Johnny Guitar last night on cable TV, and was struck by how the film's titular (anti?)hero, played by Sterling Hayden, anticipated in some ways the demeanor and even the look of Ennis (though it's hard to imagine Ennis strumming a tune on a guitar).

Brokeback is most definitely a romance and drama, whatever its Western credentials; this could serve as another example of the amorphous boundaries that can complicate considerations of genre.

[Meryl]

*reads list on Meryl's link*

*goes off to burn Paul Haggis in effigy again*

Interesting that they mention specifically that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not on the list, because it's not an American-made film, but they don't mention BBM. (Is CTHD officially the movie that Ang Lee is known best for? I know it made more money than BBM, and I love both movies, but... well, BBM is amazing. I saw CTHD twice in the theater. I saw BBM six times.)

I've been avoiding the awards hoopla this year, but... well, does it ever strike anyone that the entertainment media really avoids talking about BBM, unless it's in the context of gay rights? Like it can only be discussed as a gay movie, not as simply a GREAT movie.

(That said, I want to see the LotR movies rated higher than Star Wars... )

*Fans the flames on the pseudo-Haggis*

I hate to say it, but I think you're right that the media are so lacking in perception or intimidated by the subject that they don't look past the homosexual theme to notice that BBM is simply a great movie, period. 

I was pleased to see that the author singled out the LOTR movies as being possible competition for "Citizen Kane," even though it was probably mainly meant as an attention-grabbing headline.  As with BBM, the media tends to not look past the fantasy label to realize how good these movies are, particularly when compared to Star Wars.

[moremojo]

As with BBM, the media tends to not look past the fantasy label to realize how good these movies are, particularly when compared to Star Wars.

I certainly think that Citizen Kane and the Star Wars series all tend to be consistently overrated (though the historical importance of Citizen Kane cannot be denied).

[nakymaton]

*Fans the flames on the pseudo-Haggis*

I would roast marshmallows, but, well... I keep thinking of the Scottish dish haggis, and I don't think I would enjoy eating haggis-flavored marshmallows.

I was pleased to see that the author singled out the LOTR movies as being possible competition for "Citizen Kane," even though it was probably mainly meant as an attention-grabbing headline.

And LotR is on the list because it made a lot of money. Like Shrek. Like the Harry Potter franchise. (Nothing against Harry or Shrek, mind you. I would watch any of the HP or Shrek movies multiple times before anything written by Paul Haggis. Harry and Shrek are a lot of fun. But they're on the list because they made money.)

I keep hoping that people will remember what a great movie BBM was, and how much the critics loved it, and how great a response it got from audiences, especially compared to the expectations of the "nobody wants to see a gay movie" bigots and trolls. But the media is very happy to refer to the "Crash upset" as if it made the awards exciting, and as if Crash actually deserved the Oscar.

*burns the entertainment media in effigy as well*

[Meryl]

I keep hoping that people will remember what a great movie BBM was, and how much the critics loved it, and how great a response it got from audiences, especially compared to the expectations of the "nobody wants to see a gay movie" bigots and trolls. But the media is very happy to refer to the "Crash upset" as if it made the awards exciting, and as if Crash actually deserved the Oscar.

It disgusts me to think that, regardless of the record number of awards handed out to BBM, the mere fact that it didn't win Best Picture is the reason that it's not mentioned in that article and Crash is.  We're all so conditioned to think of the Oscars as the be all and end all.  That debacle did such damage in so many ways.