Author Topic: Exactly WHEN does Jack decide.. th 1st tent scene..is gonna be th 1s tent scene?  (Read 22572 times)

Offline isabelle

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What has been expressed so far has been so in such beautiful ways, that I wonder if my post is worth it. But I agree with latjoreme and lucise: I don't think there was a plan on Jack's part to get Ennis drunk. Jack was certainly attracted to Ennis from very early on, and just seized the opportunity when it came his way - their being drunk, especially Ennis, and being inside the tent. I think Jack was not a great planner, but he does seem pretty confident about what he's doing when he leads Ennis's hand to his crotch in the 1st TS. He must have felt confident that Ennis was attracted to him too, or at least took his chance on what might have been just his own interpretation.
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Offline twistedude

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For littleguitar, and others who didn't think Jack made up his mind till they were both sitting by the tent flap, IMNSHO==you're "a few sandwiches short of a picinic"--(picked that up in fanfiction today--I think, not sure). You are saying that Jack, in his sleep, scootches way over toward Ennis, turns slightly toward Ennis, takes his own hand out of his covers, gropes for Ennis's hand, pulls it across his body and down into his own blankets to his groin...in his sleep. Then when Ennis sits up--like a jack-in-the-box, Jack just a fraction of a second behind him--and Jack says "come on!' softly, grabsat  BOTH Ennis's lapels, afraid he's maybe going to bolt, and then sees he isn't, ands drops the right one,  and looks at him with utter calmness, removes his jacket,  while Ennis's tortured face first expresses "what'r you doing?" and then "NOW I know what we're doing"---you're saying there's no agressor here?

It is in the fighting-off, then drawing toward him of Jack's hands on his shoulders, head, with his own hands etc, that Ennis makes up his mind...of course, it's not his mind. He left it in his other suit (Old saying of my father's).

Maybe I can live a few more days without the DVD...

"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline littleguitar

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Hey now, no need to get feisty... can't we express opinions without name calling? 

Besides that, I wasn't saying that Jack wasn't the agressor, or that he only made up his mind right then and there.  I think Jack knew all along how he felt and, like I said in my post before, that there was a slow seduction and Jack working on Ennis the entire time up until that tent scene.  I was merely pointing out that, in the tent scene, there is a moment of hesitation for Jack as well, that I think his boldness surprised even him and that, for a second, he realized how dangerous it could be if he follows through.  As for grabbing Ennis's hand in his sleep, I think it's possible, I'm a pretty active sleeper and have done more than that in my sleep.  And I know I'm not the only one who thinks Jack was asleep or out of it when he grabbed Ennis's hand, there was an entire discussion on this over on imdb before chez tremblay even existed... That is not to say that I don't think Jack knew what he wanted or did not actively move on Ennis, because I think he did.  I just think that Jack wasn't entirely confident about the situation either, and I definitely do not think that he had some elaborate plan to get Ennis drunk then seduce him.
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

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vkm91941

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OK, adjusting my moderator cap... Can we please keep personalities out of our discussions.  We all have opinions and everyone's is Valid.  Our Webmaster Phil has one  rule and one rule only for bettermost.net and that is that we treat each other and our opinions with respect and kindness.  No name calling or arguing  is to be allowed.  Thank you now back to our regularly scheduled chat... 8)

Offline fernly

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A couple observations to add in...
when Jack is woken up by Ennis' "hammering," he looks to me (when he's lying there before he speaks and also after he's stuck his head out of the tent and is rubbing his face) like most guys when they're jarred out of a sound sleep, i.e. cranky rather than moving consciously to the next step of a plan. 

However, a few moments later, when Ennis is finally in the tent with him, there is the briefest of (satisfied? anticipatin? just happy and in love?) smiles on Jack's face before the camera cuts away.  That's when I think, maybe, Jack decides.
But, like everyone's said, there're two people in the tent, and Jack is going to be very aware at every moment of Ennis' reactions to everything, and respond as carefully as anyone can in the heat of passion.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 01:36:12 am by fernly »
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Offline twistedude

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jeez..I thought "two sanadwiches short of a picnic" was sort of sweet..no?  NO..I'm sorry. (I remember now where it came from: chapter 7, "A Love Born From Steel"As for jACK BEING careful...and watching for signs from Ennis that he don't like what's going down..he persists through physical defensiveness, but doesn't reach for his belt buckle till Ennis is breathing as hard as he is...hey, we're not doing this just so we can relive the first tent scene, are we?

Maybe, a little...
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline Ellemeno

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Hi Friends,

It is Ennis who announces he's not going up to the sheep, but staying in camp til first light (letting Jack know how long he has to make his move).  He doesn't have the courage to go into the tent at first, but he has enough courage that night to make himself available out there by the fire.  BTW, one of my favorite moments of the movie is that groan of Ennis's as he lies down on the ground.  And then he says something like, "Oh yeah, that's good," when Jack puts the blanket on him.  It's a pretty uninhibited thing for Ennis to say.

Offline twistedude

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I think it's fascinating how many different opinions there are...and I keep thinking, it probably has to do with our own experiences...I mean, what do you have, really, to judge the actions, motivations, plans and attractions of others against..besides your own?

The Asian Art Museum used to be the San Francisco Public Library (since 1917)--and we kept the original readingr-room ceiling. Nobody knows exactly who painted it. The head of volunteer services says she thinks it's a good Rorshark Test for the individuals, what they think it looks like: early 20th century arts and crafts, or a 16th century Italian palazo?

Maybe Ennis DIDN'T have to make all that noise...
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline serious crayons

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BTW, one of my favorite moments of the movie is that groan of Ennis's as he lies down on the ground.  And then he says something like, "Oh yeah, that's good," when Jack puts the blanket on him.

I have GOT to get that DVD. I've been missing half the movie.

I don't think Jack was scheming from the get-go to get Ennis drunk and seduce him. On the other hand, I can't imagine him just drifting off to sound sleep knowing that the man of his dreams was finally lying in bed with him just inches away. At that point, I know I'D start doing some serious scheming.

Offline twistedude

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I am TRYING like hell to send my last post--to the Direxctor of Volunteer Services at the Asain Art Museum--without sending the whole page! If I can't, I won't send anything...
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters