Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?

[jpwagoneer1964]

Artiste

Did you get the PH#'s of those men that stayed with their families till the kid grew up. Sound like my kind of man! Kind if character I'm looking for! Personally I would have anything to do with a guy ( not a man in my view ) that left his family because he decided he was gay, no matter how pretty or how engaging the personality.

[Artiste]

Thanks all !!

Interesting!

Hugs!

[chelseagirl]

Ironic isn't that Jack died still marry, and Ennis was the one with the divorce.   But Jack wanted the "sweet life",  Ennis still resisted that idea.   Isn't insteresting that Jack who was willing to give everything up for Ennis, stayed with Lureen, and Ennis lived alone. 

Why do you think this happen?  Honor?   Or the reason that Jack instinctively knew that this is what Ennis wanted?  If Jack did leave Lureen that maybe feared that Ennis would resist to the point of not wanting to see him again because this would lead to the danger he feared so much?  To live that life Jack wanted and open them up to danger.

[loneleeb3]

Ironic isn't that Jack died still marry, and Ennis was the one with the divorce.   But Jack wanted the "sweet life",  Ennis still resisted that idea.   Isn't insteresting that Jack who was willing to give everything up for Ennis, stayed with Lureen, and Ennis lived alone. 

Why do you think this happen?  Honor?   Or the reason that Jack instinctively knew that this is what Ennis wanted?  If Jack did leave Lureen that maybe feared that Ennis would resist to the point of not wanting to see him again because this would lead to the danger he feared so much?  To live that life Jack wanted and open them up to danger.

Those are great points CG!
I think part of it for Jack is that he enjoyed the status and the financial aspects of the relationship.
I don't think it was honor cause he's a chucked it all in a New York minute if Ennis ever gave the word.
I also don't think Jack liked to be alone.
Now Ennis, he was different. I think he tried to do what society says you are but just could never make it work because thats not who he was. I think he was a gay man in a time when it was even harder to be that then it is now. I don't think he could process those feelings. The only time he was ever whole and ever happy was with Jack. It hink he would rather be alone than have to struggle in a relationship that was just window dressing.

[Artiste]

Thanks chelseagirl!

You make good points.

May I try to qualify in two ways:
I think that Jack did have a certain appreciation from his wife because she was agressive and there; as she went after Jack for sex... and beauty as Jack smiled beautifully at her and as he was shy in some delicious ways. May I qualify there as present in the home and/or house, but she became nearly just in the house.
She was similar to Ennis, that way, as being just present!

In some ways, Jack married Ennis by letting Lureen lure him in! Ennis did do some luring too, wanted Jack even first sight, as seen in the movie, remember? Ennis even asked Jack for sex, right?

Hugs!

[Artiste]

Thanks Lee!

You say that Jack did not like to be alone.

I agree with you. But he was alone in many ways, unfortunately!
Maybe he needed to have more DIALOGUE with his wife as well as with Ennis??


Hugs!

[loneleeb3]

Thanks Lee!

You say that Jack did not like to be alone.

I agree with you. But he was alone in many ways, unfortunately!
Maybe he needed to have more DIALOGUE with his wife as well as with Ennis??


Hugs!

i thnk he would have rather had it with Ennis. I think Lureen was a poor substitiute for what/who he really wanted.
I think it was more of a "If ya can't beat 'em  join 'em" type of thing. Jack had security because of Lureens money but his happiness only came from one place, Ennis!

[Artiste]

Thanks Lee!

You say That Jack wanted Ennis, and Ennis wanted Jack!! ??

That is wishful thinking on both Ennis and Jack's parts, but they acted on that in some ways ONLY!!

Could somehow they could have lived together Jack and Ennis?? You think... eh Lee??

Hugs!!

[chelseagirl]

After the reunion, there was no way I believe Ennis would have let Jack get away again.  After say that, It's a miracle that Jack stayed with Ennis.   For all those years after that Ennis's fears, his struggle with his own sexuality, his insistence in dominating Jack, there was really no reason in the world for Jack to stay with him and to love him the way he did. 

Their need for each other, emotionally, sexually, and even an almost spiritual connection between them, bound them.  These  things sustain a love on a mountainside for twenty years.  And in that tells us about love and commitment to someone you may consciously or unconsciously need more than just air to breathe. 

But all in all, there was subtle play for power, to keep what they had for each alive, but also slowly killing what they need most,  each other.  The final confrontation was example of that.   Jack was fed up with Ennis, felt Ennis was being cruel for giving less and less of himself,  Ennis struggling with his own sexuality, his need for Jack, and fear of losing him to the point of threatening Jack's life was so conflicted he broke down in Jack arms,  there was a lot emotions going on.  More then just surface, but to the core of each man.       Who lost control than and why? 

[Artiste]

Thanks chelseagirl !

Well said... is your view!

Let us not foget that gay men can not exist... then nor now, as even if you are in the USA army, you are not allowed to talk (about being gay)! Being a gay man, I am not allowed to talk about it nor act it, but others (straights and criminals) have their freedom!!

Like in Ennis and Jack's time, it is worst now even to-day... as muslims and other so-called religious criminals kill gays and women (as well as children)!!!

There is no difference between Jack's and Ennis's times as there is now, because violence, etc., are facts against us gays unfortunately too in our so-called democratic, USA, Canada, etc., countries, just because we are homosexuals respecting human life!!

I supposed that Annie was and still is puzzled as to why killings and other forms of violence towards gays are still current!! What is your views on that?

Hugs!