Author Topic: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"  (Read 7271 times)

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,101
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2018, 10:11:17 am »
Quote
I think Alma Jr. and Cassie were speaking in code, as it was and is necessary to do in Wyoming. "He's not the marrying kind" as you pointed out, is code for gay, and "You don't say much, but you get your point across" means "message received." Still, I think Cassie denies the reality due to Ennis's manliness and virility.

That's exactly what I was wondering when I asked about this at the beginning of this thread years on years ago. Is that what they were "really" saying? Or is it what we, the audience, are meant to wonder about? Either in an ironic way, because we know it has a double meaning in this case, or in a confused way because we don't know if they actually meant that, or if they were just saying, "He doesn't want to settle down." "OK, I get it."

I think Diana and Larry intended both meanings, deliberately ambiguously. By choosing phrases that fit both a superficial interpretation and the double-meaning interpretation, they were letting us share the feeling that Jack and especially Ennis lived with all the time: What do the people on the pavement suspect? Are the pool hall guys about to jump me? They can never be sure. The movie uses this technique on and off throughout. (Recall that the bartender also uses an ambiguous phrase!)

On another topic, Lee, I'm saddened and surprised to see you put it in present tense (was and is). Granted, I live in a bubble, but from what I've seen I feel like people these days are far less homophobic now than they were even when this thread began. Now that marriage equality is the law of the land, now that lots more movie and TV characters are gay without it being a big deal, they've kind of acquiesced to it. Plus, bigots can turn to another target -- now they can be transphobic!

But I don't live in or near Wyoming, so maybe it hasn't changed as much there.





Online CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,762
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2018, 10:17:16 am »
I think Alma Jr. and Cassie were speaking in code, as it was and is necessary to do in Wyoming. "He's not the marrying kind" as you pointed out, is code for gay, and "You don't say much, but you get your point across" means "message received." Still, I think Cassie denies the reality due to Ennis's manliness and virility.

I never thought of if that way.  Alma Jr. may have meant her quote as code for gay, but I don't think Cassie took it that way, more as a comment to herself. 

Although Cassie wouldn't know this,  I was reminded of an earlier comment from the movie, with Alma stating that Ennis should get married again, she "and the girls" were worried about him being alone all the time.

It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Sason

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,035
  • Bork bork bork
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2018, 04:41:44 pm »
It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."

I'm not so sure about that. We don't know anything about Ennis' and Cassie's sex life. I feel pretty sure it wasn't very intense, for obvious reasons.
Maybe Cassie was hoping it would be better if Ennis finally saw fit to settle down, part of the reason she was asking Junior that question.

And maybe, just maybe, that't what Ennis meant when he said "I wasn't much fun anyway, was I", in the apple pie scene.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,101
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2018, 10:24:19 am »
It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."

I think that's what we're meant to think she meant.

But "you get your point across" is an unusual way to answer that question. Most people would say something like, "I sure hope so" or "I wonder what he's looking for" or "Maybe he has commitment issues" (OK, so maybe that last one would only be people familiar with late-20th century pop psychology.)

"You get your point across" is a slightly weird way to answer. Not so weird that it doesn't make sense at all or seems really out of place. Just a bit weird, because Junior didn't seem to be hinting at any larger point than what she said more or less outright: Maybe he doesn't want to be married, because if he did Cassie would make an acceptable wife.

That's why I think these lines are meant to resonate with viewers. We know the superficial meaning, above. But we also know the ironic subtext, which Cassie probably doesn't know and Junior may, or may not. They were chosen specifically because they allowed both interpretations.



Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,902
  • I'm marching for her!
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2018, 12:32:07 pm »
I think Diana and Larry intended both meanings, deliberately ambiguously. By choosing phrases that fit both a superficial interpretation and the double-meaning interpretation, they were letting us share the feeling that Jack and especially Ennis lived with all the time: What do the people on the pavement suspect? Are the pool hall guys about to jump me? They can never be sure. The movie uses this technique on and off throughout. (Recall that the bartender also uses an ambiguous phrase!)
I'm reading a book of movie critiques by Larry now and reminded of what a brilliant observer of female characters he is. Diana has said that he was the one who fleshed out the female characters, barely mentioned in Proulx's story. He understands the subtle nuances of the female language.

On another topic, Lee, I'm saddened and surprised to see you put it in present tense (was and is). Granted, I live in a bubble, but from what I've seen I feel like people these days are far less homophobic now than they were even when this thread began. Now that marriage equality is the law of the land, now that lots more movie and TV characters are gay without it being a big deal, they've kind of acquiesced to it. Plus, bigots can turn to another target -- now they can be transphobic!

But I don't live in or near Wyoming, so maybe it hasn't changed as much there.
Sadly, it hasn't. Rural homophobia has gotten worse, if anything, what with our president leading by example.  >:(
May 2019 be better for us all.

Online CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,762
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2018, 07:37:14 pm »
I think that's what we're meant to think she meant.

But "you get your point across" is an unusual way to answer that question. Most people would say something like, "I sure hope so" or "I wonder what he's looking for" or "Maybe he has commitment issues" (OK, so maybe that last one would only be people familiar with late-20th century pop psychology.)

"You get your point across" is a slightly weird way to answer. Not so weird that it doesn't make sense at all or seems really out of place. Just a bit weird, because Junior didn't seem to be hinting at any larger point than what she said more or less outright: Maybe he doesn't want to be married, because if he did Cassie would make an acceptable wife.

That's why I think these lines are meant to resonate with viewers. We know the superficial meaning, above. But we also know the ironic subtext, which Cassie probably doesn't know and Junior may, or may not. They were chosen specifically because they allowed both interpretations.


This is how I always took that conversation.


Jr.:  "You're good enough."  (At least you're company)

Cassie:  "You don't say much, but you get your point across."  (You don't like me and I'm not  who you would pick for your dad.)''

Jr.:  "Sorry, didn't mean to be rude."  (but yeah, you're right)


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,101
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2018, 10:00:02 am »

This is how I always took that conversation.


Jr.:  "You're good enough."  (At least you're company)

Cassie:  "You don't say much, but you get your point across."  (You don't like me and I'm not  who you would pick for your dad.)''

Jr.:  "Sorry, didn't mean to be rude."  (but yeah, you're right)

That works!  :)



Online CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,762
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2018, 10:58:12 pm »
I thought so too!  LOL


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,771
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2018, 11:34:57 am »
Sadly, it hasn't. Rural homophobia has gotten worse, if anything, what with our president leading by example.  >:(

This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic of this thread, but I'll tell you what. This morning I saw a mention of RuPaul somewhere else, and I remembered that RuPaul married (legally) a Wyoming rancher. I remembered FRiend Lee's comment here, and it made me wonder: What do the neighbors of RuPaul's husband think of that? Did they know before that their neighbor was partnered up with RuPaul? What do they think of RuPaul? Do they get a "pass" (from rural homophobia) because RuPaul is a celebrity?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,101
Re: "You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2018, 12:52:24 pm »
Rural homophobia has gotten worse, if anything, what with our president leading by example.  >:(

Far be it from me to say anything good about Donald Trump, but has he been homophobic? I've heard of him insulting just about every other marginalized group, and in doing so I'm sure he encourages and gives permission to bigots of every variety, including homophobes. I just can't recall hearing Trump himself say anything negative about gay people per se.