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What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
nic:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on May 02, 2006, 06:15:58 pm ---Ooh - meaty discussion, here. :)
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Definitely!
--- Quote ---That's why I love kissing scenes most of all when they're done right and the chemistry is real between the actors - because I think kissing is *much* more intimate than just the act itself, regardless of whether the act is gay, straight or lesbian. That's why the reunion kiss (and their very first kiss) rocks my world and gives me the hands-free sensation every time. Because it's intimate, and it's real. But I must also say that their first consummation turns me on, too, because there's so much very believable passion in it.
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I love kissing scenes too & the reunion scene kiss is almost undescribable: sexy as hell but also touching because there's so much emotion behind it. (fingers crossed it wins the MTV best kiss award)
--- Quote ---And as far as the romance angle, I think it's safe to say that women as a rule are much more into love stories than straight men.
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True. In fact, I think slash fiction (males involved with each other romantically and/or sexually) equals the popularity that Mills & Boon romance "novels" used to have. Two guys together is somehow extra romantic because they are both guys and have to overcome any inherited machoness to be able to get together. There is also a lot of first-time slash fiction around and that cashes in on the extra added attraction of evoking the feelings of the idealised first time making love.
The fact that a lot of women like men together has been overlooked for a long time and women's sexuality is still more shrouded in taboo/mystery/secrecy/perceived roles/etc & the fact there is still a lot of unknowns about it, more so than for men's sexuality. One reason I like slash is because I can relax into it without the risk of reading about something I know I wouldn't like if I were the woman on the receiving end, eg "oh no, I tried that once & it just didn't work" or "uh-uh, that wouldn't work - his legs would get in the way"! I am able to focus completely on the character's enjoyment and that is where skilled writing comes in!
Back to the original point: yeah, I do think an appreciation of all things romantic & of love contribute to getting over the gender/sexuality issue of liking BBM IF it is an issue in the first place.
nic
nic:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 03, 2006, 12:18:48 am ---Within this context of this discussion, I'm not convinced that it is merely about being able to identify with the missed opportunities of the characters, etc, etc. I'm happy to accept that there are primal responses involved that go beyond gender and orientation, but are we saying that romance *is* primal? Or put another way, is there a fundamental need by humans to love and be loved that goes beyond sexuality?
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This thread is giving the old grey matter a work out! :)
The need for love has been studied extensively by those with the appropriate "-ologies"! I know of one school of thought that thinks finding a partner is something to do with the need to replace the figure that raised you as a child, to have a care-giver, someone to appreciate you, help you, reassure you, all sorts of psychological stuff and falling in love is how nature dresses it up for us. Unfortunately I don't know enough to elaborate but this reasoning would go beyond sexuality (in that a replacement figure is needed regardless of gender).
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: nic on May 03, 2006, 09:47:33 am ---This thread is giving the old grey matter a work out! :)
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He he, don't hurt yourself now! ;) I loved your post nic, and I fully agree with you. My next ponderer though is this: We (still) talk about women being emotionally motivated and men being physically motivated, so much so that it's cliched. But do you think things are changing such that men are becoming more like women (at least emotioally)? A female friend of mine asked me over dinner tonight if I considered myself more like a woman (my motivations, likes and dislikes, etc), and with some discomfort I suggested that maybe I do. And if there was any doubt, BBM took care of that! But enough about me, I wonder if anyone is experiencing this or noticing it generally in others? Is the cliche destined for the scrap heap?
serious crayons:
Wow, thanks, Chris. You are so nice. And pretty substantive yourself, I might add. For example, this
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 03, 2006, 02:13:02 am --- I guess I first have to eliminate the same 99.9% of sex scenes that you do. Rarely are they sexy for me, they seem abstractly stuck on because of some formulaic need to have them there. Ironically, most non-romance films still "need" to have a sex scene. To be honest, off the top of my head I can't think of a single sex scene that I actually find erotic. I'm sure I have, I just can't think of any. They always seem more like a plot device than about eroticism.
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is SO true. Every movie about robots attacking humans or whatever seems to have an obligatory romantic subplot tacked on. And why bother, I've always wondered, if the couple is so lacking in chemistry and the romance so perfunctory?
But even movies in which romance is ostensibly the whole point usually fall flat for me. I like romantic comedies, they can be cheery and cute, the actors are usually appealing. But erotic? Hardly at all. And romantic dramas -- you'd think I must have found some of those a turn on, but I honestly can't think of any either. The only recent sex scene that I can remember finding the least bit hot was the one in "Cold Mountain." But even that one I can't imagine myself watching over and over on YouTube.
So despite my rational explanation above, I actually am still a little mystified about what makes Brokeback so sexy. Obviously it's very beautiful and well done, and I think everybody involved must have been trying hard for that -- not only for the usual artistic reasons but also because they wanted to make homosexuality look good to a "crossover" audience. Also, what you said, Nic, is very true -- seeing men in movies express strong emotion and vulnerability for a change is powerful.
But is their being gay a factor in my response? To be honest, I just can't tell. Certainly that's what makes the story unusual and interesting. It also could be the other way around, maybe my awareness that Heath and Jake are (apparently) straight in real life makes a difference. But I'll have to admit that lately I find watching men and women together kind of boring. That's scary! I hope it's just a temporary result of my obsession.
In any case, I should note that not all straight women I know find the movie sexy; for some, I think orientation is a barrier. This is a pretty self-selected group here at BetterMost.
I remember getting in one of those debates over on imdb about whether it's a universal love story or a gay love story. The straight people were arguing, of course, that it was universal, otherwise how could they connect with it? And a gay man replied something like, hey, this is the first really big great movie about a gay romance, let us have it. And I said, "No fair! You guys get the best one!" I was being funny, partly, but I was also being completely truthful.
PS Chris, I see that once again you've posted since I wrote this, and the conversation has moved on somewhat. I do hope maybe Brokeback will help open up more possibilities for male expression in movies.
j.U.d.E.:
Aaaah! Bumping for later..
~ j U d E
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