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Question.. Gay v Lesbian - is one more 'socially acceptable' than the other?
isabelle:
I agree with the last bit starboard (lesbians not accepting some gay men).
Just my experience (what I said earlier) in one group in my home city in France. Maybe too general a statement indeed.
And even when I was a lesbian (thought I was only that for a while), I absolutely sought the company of men (gay, preferably). I cannot bear hanging around with only one part of humanity!
delalluvia:
Pretty much what little said with the caveat that most men don't believe beautiful/attractive women can really be lesbians. They feel these women just have had bad experiences with men and just need a good bang to 'turn them around'.
Yeah, I know. :P
Historically, lesbianism has been invisible because for the majority of history, women haven't had a choice in getting married or not. She was/is property and the men in her life didn't really care what her wants/needs/desires were so any relationship she had with another women, no matter how intimate, didn't matter because women's relationships with other women weren't what counted socially speaking and were going to be done away with as soon as she was given away/sold in marriage.
Kelda:
Thanks for the responses guys... really interesting thoughts and points of view. ;D
I think what Celleste says rings true though.. lesbian is accepted as staright male fantasy, but in real life? Where they do couplely things and have an ordinary relationship - no, I don't think so.
--- Quote from: YaadPyar on May 10, 2006, 12:12:21 pm ---So, the image of women kissing or touching each other sexually is considered titillating, whereas the general perception of men doing the same is that it's offensive.
--- End quote ---
and Star.. I guess I should admit to yes, having the fashionable accessory..and enjoying that! But I would hope that I'm more than just a 'Grace'!
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 10, 2006, 12:33:33 pm ---Gay men are accepted by mainstream society as fashionable accessories. Every woman must have a gay best friend who will advise her on the best color for the season and will tell her if that latest hairdo will make her face look trimmer.
--- End quote ---
Mandy, on the nail.. woman as a whole generally try and make out we're more liberal than straight men..but you're right. Unfortunately.
--- Quote from: littleguitar on May 10, 2006, 12:35:58 pm ---IAnd, concerning women, I think gay men tend to me more accepted by women than lesbians. Obviously that isn't always the case, but it seems to be true a lot of the time.
--- End quote ---
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: kelda_shelton on May 11, 2006, 04:14:24 am ---and Star.. I guess I should admit to yes, having the fashionable accessory..and enjoying that! But I would hope that I'm more than just a 'Grace'!
--- End quote ---
I imagine that "Grace" sees her "Will" for all that he is. Though I don't know. I have met plenty of "fag hags" who refuse to see Will's sexuality. I don't object to the Grace/Will dynamic, but rather I'm frustrated that the media limits them to caricatures. I don't know if it's the fault of mainstream America not wanting to accept gay men as fully human or if Hollywood think that's the case. I'll tell ya, better baby steps than no steps at all. I'm glad "Will" is there at all.
rtprod:
My feeling on this issue is that lesbians are much more accepted in society than gay men as they are non-threatening to the heterosexual male and not that unlike heterosexual women in many of their relationship pursuits and nurturing habits. When was the last time you saw a lesbian gay bashed? Of course, we can't really refer to the Brandon Teena story which is not a lesbian story at all, rather a transgendered example and exists on its own terms, meaning it had as much to do with other churning factors in that little peer group as it did with her sexuality.
In the city where I reside, I see female couples holding hands everywhere, and no one bats an eye. If you are a gay male couple, try doing that outside of a certain gay mecca neighborhood and see the eyebrows--and other things--that will be raised. There's something about what gay men "do" that doesn't sit right with society. Lesbian proclivities are less threatening and don't seem as transgressive in the eyes of most.
What's interesting is how little gay men and lesbians really seem to have in common beyond the orientation issue. Gay men are raised and socialized as straight men are, and I would assume that the same is true for lesbians and straight women. This is why I have many straight male friends--we see eye to eye on many things and ways of expressing ourselves. They are sensitive and more in touch straight guys, but in many ways we are the same. On the other hand, I have much less in common with lesbians it seems. I'm making some generalizations I suppose but they are my perceptions of my own experience.
rt
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