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Timeline for the last scenes
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 14, 2006, 01:43:08 am ---Silk, you don't thinking the ranch neighbor was a reference to Randall? Realistic or not, I've always assumed that meant that Jack had given up on Ennis and turned to Randall as a potential co-rancher.
--- End quote ---
I can see what Silk's saying on this. Jack had given up on ever running the ranch with Ennis, and had given up on ever having what he wanted with him. But I can see him bringing up Randall in that way to his Dad more out of self-defense than out of really intending to do it. I see John as chastising him, like, "What - no more talk about Ennis Del Mar, now?" and him muttering something like, "To hell with Ennis Del Mar. And anyway, I got another friend wants to come up here, now. Rancher down Childress. Sick a his wife like I am..."
silkncense:
--- Quote ---you don't thinking the ranch neighbor was a reference to Randall?
--- End quote ---
Sorry - wasn't clear. I do believe that the 'ranch neighbor' is Randall. I just don't think Jack, in his heart, really wanted to bring Randall to Lightning Flat.
We know he did not show interest in Randall @ the dance, either @ the table or while on the bench. I feel he initally saw him only as another "Mexico" type encounter. Although he may have developed a stronger feeling for him over the approx five years, he still said to Ennis, "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".
I just don't believe, despite the huge disappointment of August (and all the other disappointments through the years), that Jack went from that statement to giving up totally on Ennis & deciding to move Randall in w/ him. Esp. after Ennis collapsed and Jack, presented with the perfect opportunity (Get the f... off me) instead forced Ennis back into his arms and reassuringly said, "It's alright, s'alright" yet again.
Also, for me, when Jack said, "Damn you Ennis" - it was more of a, 'I was just about to tell you I'd had enough...and you took my resolve.' Same with the last look.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: silkncense on May 14, 2006, 08:55:45 am ---Sorry - wasn't clear. I do believe that the 'ranch neighbor' is Randall. I just don't think Jack, in his heart, really wanted to bring Randall to Lightning Flat.
We know he did not show interest in Randall @ the dance, either @ the table or while on the bench. I feel he initally saw him only as another "Mexico" type encounter. Although he may have developed a stronger feeling for him over the approx five years, he still said to Ennis, "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".
I just don't believe, despite the huge disappointment of August (and all the other disappointments through the years), that Jack went from that statement to giving up totally on Ennis & deciding to move Randall in w/ him. Esp. after Ennis collapsed and Jack, presented with the perfect opportunity (Get the f... off me) instead forced Ennis back into his arms and reassuringly said, "It's alright, s'alright" yet again.
Also, for me, when Jack said, "Damn you Ennis" - it was more of a, 'I was just about to tell you I'd had enough...and you took my resolve.' Same with the last look.
--- End quote ---
Oh, I get it. In that case, I agree with everything you say.
TJ:
The timeline for one of the last editions of the adapted screenplay almost fit what I consider the timeline of Annie Proulx's original story.
I find it quite irritating that avowed heterosexual Larry McMurtry, who brags about women understanding emotion better than men do, had to add a "Cassie" and a "LaShawn" (or Lashawn) to the movie when people who might be them only took up the LIMITED amount of text below in the original story.
--- Quote ---Ennis said he'd been putting the blocks to a woman who worked part-time at the Wolf Ears bar in Signal where he was working now for Stoutamire's cow and calf outfit, but it wasn't going anywhere and she had some problems he didn't want. Jack said he'd had a thing going with the wife of a rancher down the road in Childress and for the last few months he'd slank around expecting to get shot by Lureen or the husband, one. Ennis laughed a little and said he probably deserved it.
--- End quote ---
And, IMO, a guy named "Randall" or whatever does not even need to be in the story. I would rather believe that Jack's "rancher neighbor," whom Mr. Twist talks about at Lightning Flat was a single man who had no ties with any woman.
And using the book's timeline and the way that Annie Proulx writes the story, Jack is physically in the very same shape as when Ennis saw him in May 1963. I just prefer to say that Jack is alive and as well as can be expected due to his being all banged up riding those bulls in rodeos. I just say that Jack in his "Let be, Let be" flash back (which, according to the book, took place after Ennis and Jack were together) decided that while he could not quit loving Ennis Del Mar, he would just move on with his life and find a man who was willing to have a life with him.
And, using the fact that Lureen was lying through her teeth about the accident, bookwise, along with the fact that Ennis NEVER saw any container with ashes in them when he did go to Lightning Flat (not even in the movie), Mr. John C. Twist, Sr. was lying about Jack, too. Jack's mother, since she was a Christian, refused to go along with the lie about Jack's passing. In fact, in the book after Jack's father first responds to Ennis's volunteering to take Jack's ashes to Brokeback, Mrs. Twist ignores him and changes the subject about how she kept Jack's room and Ennis was welcome to go up and see it.
Then is when the story continues here with Mr. Twist speaking again:
--- Quote ---The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, 'I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' He had some half-baked idea the two a you was goin a move up here, build a log cabin and help me run this ranch and bring it up. Then, this spring he's got another one's goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He's goin a split up with his wife and come back here. So he says. But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."
So now he knew it had been the tire iron. He stood up, said, you bet he'd like to see Jack's room, recalled one of Jack's stories about this old man. Jack was dick-clipped and the old man was not; it bothered the son who had discovered the anatomical disconformity during a hard scene.
--- End quote ---
Notice how he started his next speech with "I can't get no help out here." That sentence was left out of the movie's dialog. I think that it is important to Ol' John's self-centered stud duck attitude.
John C. Twist, Sr. is the STUD DUCK in the original story. Ain't no man named "L. D. Newsome" in the original story.
silkncense:
TJ -
You're saying that Jack is alive & living somewhere with the ranch neighbor?
That he simply walked away from Ennis w/ 'no little word?'
That John Twist, Lureen, etc are covering up this fact? And this is based on what Annie wrote?
I have to say I totally do not see that in either the book or film. And as an aside, the scriptwriters had to extend the action in the movie since it was based on a mere 11 page shortstory in the New Yorker and that alone would not translate to a 2+ hour movie.
Also, do you have an issue with the fact that "heterosexual"(s) Annie Prulx, Larry McMurtry, and Diana Ossana wrote the story/screenplay? You have made a point of their being heterosexual repeatedly. And if you do, where have they failed?
Or is it that men can't write women characters and women can't write male characters? Or writers shouldn't write what they have no personal experience with? I am not understanding your repeated references to this.
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