Ok.

[Katness]

So I have to admit that the aspect of me being in a different time and place does change things. Which is why I deleted what I originally said to re-write what I feel as me in the here and now. I was going to delete this topic of mine all together. But realised I can't. So like I said, I'll just put how I feel in the here and now.

Yes I will admit that I'd be hurt. But I also know that you can't really change a person's natural inclinations towards one gender or the other. So as much as I would be hurt. There really would be no competition. As I couldn't give him what he needs from a man. However, I could be biased feeling that way as A) I can't really get angry at things like this, just hurt or so I like to think. B) I could have gotten into a relationship with a man myself, but as I sort of knew I was highly likely gay myself, I said no. I told him that I didn't want to be responsible for breaking his heart when it was confirmed to me that I am gay. So I will also admit that was I heterosexual then I possibly would be angry. But then looking at it from the point of view of a woman leaving me for a man. Well, yes, I can see how I could be angry.

I guess the bottom line is there are too many situations, circumstances, ways something could happen, results, reactions, chain reactions, chain results to know what one could do, would do or how they would react. I could only really say how I would ideally like to act when I think about it. But If I was in the situation, I doubt that is how I'd react.

To JudgeHolden, no disrespect taken. I fully realise each and every day that the more I read and the more I listen to people the more I still have to learn about more of life and her tricks of both mind and body and also the more I realise that a lot of it doesn't really make any sense.

Which tends to make me feel completely idiotic and dumb (and I feel like that way too often, even including now). But, I console myself from that with thinking that someone who is idiotic and dumb (I hope this doesn't make me sound self-absorbed, that is the last thing I want) possibly often isn't always willing to learn from others or by reading or researching. I however, am more then willing to learn from others, read and research, more then I need to if I feel what I have found is not adequate.

Sincerely, Kat.

[tampatalon]

Kat, The way Ennis was acting at Thanksgiving which was years later, If Alma
made such an offer right after seeing the re-union kiss. Would he have listened to
this offer clear threw. I think he would have still reacted with denial, but I do
think Alma loved him enuff and was forward thinking for her time to handle the
truth in some way if she was treated honestly.

TampaTalon^">

[Katness]

Well, thats true.

Thinking about things more. I wouldn't really bluntly have a conversation with him. But instead I'd drop hints about how I felt in ways that would not make his denial flare up but still make it so he could see. And show it through actions. I mean Ennis is a man of few words. And actions mixed with hints would probably go further then talking. At the same time though I would not be pressing him. Just letting him know I'm one person he can trust, should he need to.

Not saying it would work though, just that thats how I would feel.

Sincerely, Kat.

[tampatalon]

I wonder how a direct approach something like this would work,
Alma to Ennis & Jack, "Are you two trying ta get your arses shot
out there by some passerby?" and then just play it off lightly and
offer them coffee. I know gay relations went on like you describe
back then cause I used ta hear "whispers" at home.

TampaTalon^">

[Penthesilea]

That's a very noble attitude you express, Kat. And I think we all wished for Ennis to have somebody like this in his life.

But it's very theoretical. Because even if you were Alma and still would have an open mindset, you'd still love him and be hurt by him.
Apart from the fact that Alma herself can't grasp what's going on, she's his wife and understandably and legitimately expects him to love her back with all his heart and put all his efforts into the well-being of their family. And as much as I love Ennis, and as much as I can understand him, he undeniably partly failed in doing so.

To put it simple: she would have been a saint if she had been able to act like you described it. Where's Alma's happiness in this scenario? Where's her chance to find someone who loves her? She would sacrify it for Ennis and her kids. And I don't think this is a desirable goal for any human being.

Yes, we wish Ennis had a friend like this in his life. But it's asked too much of a wife to play that role (an ex-wife is a different matter though).

[tampatalon]

When Alma asked Ennis to ask his friend up fer coffee in the
morning after the Siesta Motel, what would that have been about?

TampaTalon^">

[injest]

That's a very noble attitude you express, Kat. And I think we all wished for Ennis to have somebody like this in his life.

But it's very theoretical. Because even if you were Alma and still would have an open mindset, you'd still love him and be hurt by him.
Apart from the fact that Alma herself can't grasp what's going on, she's his wife and understandably and legitimately expects him to love her back with all his heart and put all his efforts into the well-being of their family. And as much as I love Ennis, and as much as I can understand him, he undeniably partly failed in doing so.

To put it simple: she would have been a saint if she had been able to act like you described it. Where's Alma's happiness in this scenario? Where's her chance to find someone who loves her? She would sacrify it for Ennis and her kids. And I don't think this is a desirable goal for any human being.

Yes, we wish Ennis had a friend like this in his life. But it's asked too much of a wife to play that role (an ex-wife is a different matter though).

I agree...women deserve to be fulfilled and happy too.

I think when this situation arises it would be EASIER for the woman to turn loose...I mean, if your husband is gay there isn't a whole lot you can blame yourself for. You CAN'T offer him something you dont' have whereas an affair with a woman would leave you with a feeling of failure. (I am guessing)

[injest]

When Alma asked Ennis to ask his friend up fer coffee in the
morning after the Siesta Motel, what would that have been about?

TampaTalon^">

denial, it was the early 60s....she was hoping that in fact they HAD been out talking all those hours...if Jack had come up and drank coffee she could 'torque that clothes hanger back into shape'

[BelAir]

I was just watching bits of BBM again. Including the bit where Alma sees Ennis and Jack kissing at the bottom of the stairs. And then Ennis going off with Jack after the night in the Hotel.

I was thinking about what my reactions would be. Now, if I was Alma but still with my own current mindset that I have now. Only heterosexual, or at the least bisexual. I'd calmly talk to Ennis. And even though it is the 1960's, I'd let him know that what he is feeling for Jack is quite all right. But also knowing how people can be in the 1960's especially in a place like Wyoming, I'd let Ennis know that I would not divorce him.

Basically, I'd set him free of our relationship but let him still have the security and safety from society and potential homophobia of still being married to me. And it would not only be for him either, but for the kids as well. Partly because if other kids found out their Dad was in love with another man, well they would turn on them. But all those kids would have to know is that their parents are still together. As I can tell from some of his actions and expressions that he does care for Alma, just not in the same way as he does for Jack. And that basically, he doesn't have to hide from me. And he could come to me with any trouble if Jack wasn't close by to help.

Now that I think about it, Ennis probably did need someone like that. Someone to show him that what he feels for Jack is "alright" as Jack himself said. Thats just what I'd do. If I was Alma but still had the mind set I have now as me.

Also, in the scene where Cassie says to Ennis "Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun". The look on Ennis's face straight after that, I was wondering if he was thinking about Jack. The reason I'm saying this is because I wonder if Ennis at first was not seeing that Jack is in love with him, even after Jack says that he wishes he knew how to quit Ennis. And that maybe, just maybe, Ennis was putting two and two together in realizing that Jack didn't "fall in love with fun" either??

Or maybe someone already said that?

Regarding the first part, I know I would be hurt, angry, and jealous...  In my head I would be exploding.  But I doubt I would be able to verbalize any of it.  I would probably have spent a lot of time thinking about "what to do" while Ennis was away fishing.  I honestly don't know what conclusion I would reach... because it really is impossible for me to truly 'walk in Alma's shoes'...  The time/place/circumstances of my existence being so very different from hers.  Alma, like everyone else in the movie, would have benefited from a really good friend.  There is no way I could have coped with all of what she went through on my own.

Regarding the second part, I think you have a good point.  I never thought about it that way, that the conversation may have caused Ennis to reflect on Jack's feelings... vs. just what Cassie was feeling. 

[David]

Alma was no doubt shocked and confused by the sight of her husband kissing another man.   I think she invited him up for coffee so she could get a closer look and see for herself what was going on.

But after that weekend when Ennis runs off with Jack, she shoulda knew the marriage was a sham.   

I have spoken to girls that dated gay or bisexual guys.   They are fooled at first because if a guy has sex with them they must be straight right?  Many of the girls have suspected their guy was gay.   Eventually the relationship self destructs.