Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
sexual orientation, jealousy, and the definition of infidelity.
myprivatejack:
As I'm a newcomer I don't know if someone has spoken about this before-if so,excuse me...-; do you think that Jack was more faithless than Ennis for the only question of having been with other men?.Or do you believe that his infidelity was a mere sexual relief? Not so important as the fidelity he kept all his life to his inner way of being,his inner feelings to ONLY ONE person?.Or perhaps his fidelity was greater because he became faithful to HIMSELF in an emotional sense,not in sexual?.Opinions,please... :)
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: myprivatejack on March 14, 2008, 11:53:09 am ---As I'm a newcomer I don't know if someone has spoken about this before-if so,excuse me...-; do you think that Jack was more faithless than Ennis for the only question of having been with other men?.Or do you believe that his infidelity was a mere sexual relief? Not so important as the fidelity he kept all his life to his inner way of being,his inner feelings to ONLY ONE person?.Or perhaps his fidelity was greater because he became faithful to HIMSELF in an emotional sense,not in sexual?.Opinions,please... :)
--- End quote ---
I guess I don't really believe in the concept of "faithfulness" per se. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with being faithful. What I believe in is the idea of loving others without regard for what they will give you in return. Easy to say, hard to do, I know. But it's something to shoot for. Unconditional love, I call it. And Jack was definitely a master of that. However, we know that he had relations with other men for the purpose of sexual relief, after all he said "I can't get by on a couple of HAFs a year."
Yes, he was more true to himself than Ennis, but remember, Ennis had been through a traumatic experience as a child and had reacted by shutting himself off from his feelings. Jack had been through one as well with his dad but Jack's way of reacting was to go his own way.
optom3:
--- Quote from: forsythia12 on March 12, 2008, 01:17:47 pm ---yeah, that conversation is interesting, and i never paid much attention to that line. maybe that's a whole new topic for another thread. 'did jack make an inference about both of them being gay when he said that'?????
--- End quote ---
I always thought the use of the word sinners and hell was a reference to them both being gay.I know it was a different era,but even then surely sinner and hell would have been harsh words to use for heterosexual sex.
But I bet in rural states, gay sex would be very strongly associated with sin and the fires of hell etc. Probably still is by the most judgemental.
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: optom3 on March 14, 2008, 12:30:36 pm ---I always thought the use of the word sinners and hell was a reference to them both being gay.I know it was a different era,but even then surely sinner and hell would have been harsh words to use for heterosexual sex.
But I bet in rural states, gay sex would be very strongly associated with sin and the fires of hell etc. Probably still is by the most judgemental.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry optom, I have to disagree with you. By "sinner" I believe Ennis was referring to people who, uh, fornicate. I don't think the idea of gayness had quite entered his consciousness at that point, altho it was undoubtedly lurking below. Yes, sinner was and is a harsh word but he may have been using it a bit tongue in cheek, as his following words "I ain't yet had the opportunity" make clear. BBM is a story of contrasts, that's for sure!!
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on March 14, 2008, 01:29:27 pm ---I'm sorry optom, I have to disagree with you. By "sinner" I believe Ennis was referring to people who, uh, fornicate. I don't think the idea of gayness had quite entered his consciousness at that point, altho it was undoubtedly lurking below. Yes, sinner was and is a harsh word but he may have been using it a bit tongue in cheek, as his following words "I ain't yet had the opportunity" make clear. BBM is a story of contrasts, that's for sure!!
--- End quote ---
Hi Lee,
I agree here. While Jack may be ready to understand a budding connection between himself and Ennis in terms of mutual attraction and latent sexual orientation, I don't think Ennis is there yet.
I do think that when Ennis uses the word "sinner" he's referring to sex in general (and probably at this point... heterosexual sex on a conscious level. His body language and eye-contact with Jack imply that he really is probably already attracted to Jack, but I don't think he's really aware of this at a conscious level yet).
So, when I've said before that this could be a moment of flirting... I think Ennis is almost (possibly) flirting despite himself. Or, he's sort of stumbling along and not entirely aware of himself or what's really going on yet.
Complex indeed.
I would guess too, that there were and probably still are plenty of fire-and-brimstone types who would easily refer to heterosexual sex outside of marriage with terms like "sin" and "hell."
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