Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Jake In Drag??
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on January 14, 2007, 06:00:37 pm ---I dunno, I didn't think the monologue stuff was horrific -- the humor wasn't mean-spirited -- but part of me agrees with Jess. Besides, if you're going to make jokes involving gay people or any minority group, it's not just more PC, but also funnier, fresher and more original to make ones that challenge or upend stereotypes rather than reinforce them.
For example, I liked Jon Stewart's Oscar night joke about how the film Capote was made "to show that not all gay men are virile cowboys." Does that challenge stereotype or reinforce it? I suppose you could see one that either way, but at the very least it seemed fresher than what SNL did.
But let's face it, SNL just isn't very well written. Which always baffles me, because The Daily Show and The Colbert Report manage to be consistently funny four nights a week, and SNL is only on once a week, but rarely is outright funny. Yet you'd think SNL would attract better writers; it's higher profile, and NBC probably pays better than Comedy Central.
???
--- End quote ---
But then, where was all the outrage with "Will & Grace"? That show regurgitated decades old gay stereotypes every single week. Will and Jack? Give me a break. Jack the flaming queen and Will the preppy compulsive "neat freak". I guarantee you Will & Grace was a show that offended many gay Americans; myself included.
What about "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"? Another offensive show to many gay people. Carson Kressley? That man flames like a welding torch. He IS the typical gay stereotype. Where's the anger?
These kinds of shows do far more harm to the gay community than a "Jake in drag" skit on SNL could ever do.
Jake in drag was funny. I talked with a few of my gay friends about the show. Nobody felt offended. They loved it. Go watch a drag show sometime. I have seen drag shows that make Jake's Jennifer Hudson impersonation look conservative and tame.
I'm not mad or angry at all, and I hope this post doesn't give someone the impression I am. I'm just trying to make a point. And I agree with Geri. SNL sucks. I watched it all the time in the 1970's and 80's. It's just not funny anymore. But I thought Jake did a good job last night. Let's just have a good laugh over this and move on! :)
nakymaton:
I finally got the file downloaded and had time to watch it. And... well, I've got two responses. One... holy &*(% Jake has gorgeous arms and shoulders. *cough* But the guys in the audience did grate on me, and I'm not sure if it's because the fanboys in cowboy hats were insulting, or because they were so painfully over-acted cariacatures. I mean, I laughed at the New Yorker cartoon with the guy saying "what if I don't want to be Jack or Ennis?" So I don't know if I'm offended by the stereotype put-downs, or if I'm offended by bad comedy and blank faces. BBM has made it damn hard to watch anything that lacks subtlety, you know?
So. Jake in drag? Um, he looked really good in that dress. SNL? It makes me glad I don't have television.
Ellemeno:
Nothing wrong with drag or minstrel shows theoretically, but:
What Jess said about the effects of homophobia being no laughing matter, and its effect on the gay teen suicide rate.
What Katherine said about upending the stereotype being much funnier. I am a consistent Colbert-watcher, and he frequently makes jokes that are gay-related, and those jokes are never mean-spirited or minimizing of gay rights - they support gay rights.
Also what Meryl said about comedians (and that includes many of us) really needing to see what our humor is perpetuating - and Meryl, that means a lot coming from the campiest diva I know! Not to put you in the hot seat, but you are able to mock so much in your High Priestess persona without ever being mean-spirited. :-*
David, your post came in as I was typing. I haven't watched "Queer Eye," but I've seen a tiny bit of that Carson Kressley fella and he seems pretty unappealing to me. The few times I have watched "Will and Grace," the Jack character seems to be repeatedly kissing with the Megan Mullaly character, which always confused me. I bet a lot of people here agree with your assessment of those shows.
I'm glad we are having these conversations. I applaud our ability to discourse without getting mean. And as I said in my post in the "Gayest Food Ever" thread, I really do think it helps to be able to kind of practice speaking up here about what we feel is wrong, so that we can do it more confidently in less friendly situations.
Oop, now Mel's post just came in. The thing that was funny about that New Yorker cartoon was that it turned the stereotype over too - even among gay cowboys, or gay cowboy wannabes or gay cowboy wannabe's pardners, there are those who want another choice besides Jack OR Ennis.
Lumière:
--- Quote from: David925 on January 14, 2007, 06:59:02 pm ---
But then, where was all the outrage with "Will & Grace"? That show regurgitated decades old gay stereotypes every single week. Will and Jack? Give me a break. Jack the flaming queen and Will the preppy compulsive "neat freak". I guarantee you Will & Grace was a show that offended many gay Americans; myself included.
What about "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"? Another offensive show to many gay people. Carson Kressley? That man flames like a welding torch. He IS the typical gay stereotype. Where's the anger?
These kinds of shows do far more harm to the gay community than a "Jake in drag" skit on SNL could ever do.
--- End quote ---
David - you said everything I had in mind on this, and so well too. Thank you mate! :)
ednbarby:
Thank you from me, too, David. I *loathe* "Will & Grace" - always have - primarily because the biggest homophobes I know think it is "a real hoot." Don't much like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" either for the same reason. I find the former in particular outrageous. And I agree that it's much more damaging than that bit on SNL, which is, after all, all about parodies. It's much easier to take SNL's perpetuating of the stereotype in a one-shot thing than W&G's regular habit of it.
Overall, I like that SNL did one Brokeback bit (and as Meryl said, make no mistake - that's what it was) right at the get-go, got it out of the way, and *moved on.* Beats the hell out of what Leno and Letterman et. al have been able to do, and they didn't have one of the stars on most of the times they kept beating that dead (or never-was-alive-in-the-first-place) horse. And as I said, it's more than I expected of them.
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