Author Topic: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'  (Read 21609 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2007, 11:29:38 am »
I've wondered, too, if in trying to understand I was over-thinking or over-analyzing, and if it isn't simply the flip side of the stereotypical straight male fascination with "girl-on-girl action." Haven't wanted to go there, though, because it seemed, well, stereotypical, condescending, and possibly even insulting to women.  :-\

No, it's a valid question. And if you can't ask it here, where CAN you ask it?

I'm no expert (as Scott might say, this is speculative rather than authoritative  :)), but I think they're different, and here's why. The stereotypical straight male fascination with GOG action strikes me as a bit more exploitative. To me, it seems as if the men like the idea of the women putting on a show for their benefit. As far as I can tell, straight men are not as fascinated by watching two lesbians, i.e., women who have no sexual interest in men, as they are by two women -- in many cases, straight women -- who create an implied threesome with the voyeuristic viewer. For instance, those girls who make out in "Girls Gone Gone Wild" videos seem to be straight women who wouldn't ordinarily be making out but who do it for the sake of being filmed for a product that will be marketed to straight men (crass and tasteless straight men, I might add, along with some other adjectives, but that's a different story). And that appears to me to be what straight men find most appealing. (If anyone can correct me on this, feel free -- I've never actually discussed this with any straight man who admits to finding this hot, so these are just assumptions based on cultural observation.)

But women who like slash seem to be fine with the idea that the men are there for each other. Oh, some might fantasize about being there in the tent with Jack and Ennis, for example, but that's not essential to enjoying the scene.

But what they have in common, I think, is an equation that applies to straight people of either gender, which is: Attractive people of opposite sex  +  sex  X  2  =  hot.

Does that make sense and sound right?



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2007, 11:42:47 am »
Thank you, Katherine, it makes very good sense and sounds right, too.

I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?

It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2007, 12:15:33 pm »
I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?

Correct.  :)

Quote
It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.

I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ...  ???

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2007, 12:25:54 pm »
I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ...  ???

Sure enough! I doubt we have too many of the latter!  :laugh:

Tell you what, since I've stuck my neck out so far already, I might as well stick it out farther and admit that I've wondered whether any straight women "identify" with either Ennis or Jack particularly in TS2.

I certainly know the answer to that question for one gay man. ...  ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2007, 01:13:48 pm »
For what it's worth, I can weigh in as a gay man who enjoys seeing men and women together (whether it is in the context of a romantic depiction, or a sexually explicit one). Many of my gay male friends cannot relate to this (specifically regarding the issue of heterosexual erotica/pornography), and some have found me eccentric for my appreciation. I should emphasize that it is the presence of the men that invests these depictions with erotic appeal for me, but for the more generally romantic ones, the gender of the participants has no bearing on my positive response. In the same context, I can find scenarios involving only women appealing in this general way, without my response extending into the erotic.

For the record, my favorite gay film (apart from Brokeback Mountain, which transcends categorization anyway), which is also the gayest film I've ever seen (and I do mean that in a positive, non-sarcastic way), is Werner Schroeter's 1972 masterpiece Der Tod der Maria Malibran, which is populated almost wholly with female characters (not all of them played by women).

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2007, 02:56:01 pm »
I think my response is at least partly similar, Scott. Before Brokeback, I had assumed I would not find a love scene between two men particularly erotic, because, well, what's in it for me? I figured that if I found a heterosexual love scene sexy, it was because I identified with the woman and imagined myself in the scene in her place.

Turns out I was wrong. In analyzing my response to BBM, I realized it wasn't that I identified with the woman in a heterosexual scene, it was that I found the man in the scene attractive (assuming I did -- if not, forget the whole thing). So in a love scene between two people, at least one of whom is a man, I can identify with the other person regardless of gender.

In Brokeback, I find BOTH men attractive, which just doubles the fun -- I can put myself in either of their places. But if I had to pick one or the other, to answer Jeff's question

I've wondered whether any straight women "identify" with either Ennis or Jack particularly in TS2.

I certainly know the answer to that question for one gay man. ...  ::)

I'm pretty sure my answer, Jeff, would be the opposite of yours!  ;D ::) ;)


Offline Toast

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2007, 04:22:52 pm »
As a Canada Day gift, I am unveiling
the Brokeback Mountain articles from
Fi l m Qu ar ter ly, spring 2007.
I have scanned the pages as images and as a text document.


The text of the articles is HERE.

The page images are HERE.

Note the image names reflect page number and title of the article.



TWO DISCLAIMERS:

Photobucket has it's ways.
It seems to upload the files in alphabetic order, and then display them in order of latest upload - reversing the order of the files.

The photos printed with the articles were printed in grey scale, so please remember that I did not scan incorrectly and lose the image color.


ps LIMITED TIME OFFER
DUE TO COPYRIGHT RESTRICTIONS, ........
.........
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 07:44:40 pm by Toast »

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2007, 08:50:55 pm »
Yall, this is what a cool brokie on DC had to say about it:  http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=9675.msg905046#msg905046

Offline Fran

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2007, 01:55:30 pm »
Wow, Toast!  Thanks for taking the time to post this.  I know I couldn't find that particular issue of Film Quarterly at my bookstore in Chicago.  Thanks for including the photos, too. 

And I'll bet there are some unplayed words in those articles that we can incorporate into the ABCs game one of these rounds....

:)

Offline Toast

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NOW we can all read the Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2007, 04:23:48 pm »
Three posts back, for all your reading pleasure