Author Topic: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'  (Read 21377 times)

moremojo

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Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« on: April 12, 2007, 10:28:54 pm »
I happened upon the current issue (Spring 2007, volume 60, no. 3)  of the scholarly journal Film Quarterly in the periodicals section of my library today, and discovered that a substantial portion of the magazine is devoted to the film Brokeback Mountain. Eight articles, including an introduction to the pertinent section by Rob White, critically engage the film and its social and cultural ramifications. It is unusual for the editorial board of Film Quarterly to essentially dedicate an issue to one film, but White argues that Brokeback Mountain's significant and continuing sociopolitical impact merits the most serious scholarly attention.

I was not able to do more than scan quickly through the issue, but I found the website for Film Quarterly that reproduces the cover, provides the table of contents, and allows for a PDF download of White's introduction and a plot synopsis of the film (there are some questionable assertions in the latter that suggest, at the least, a minimal exposure to Proulx's original story). Here is the direct link to the site:

http://www.filmquarterly.org/index2.html

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 10:32:23 pm »
Outstanding! This is what I've been waiting for! I can't wait to snap up a copy!!
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 01:48:24 am »
This IS exciting!  I'm heading to the good magazine store tomorrow & puttin' it on the banner now.  Thanks so much, Scott.  :)

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 03:59:31 am »
This IS exciting!  I'm heading to the good magazine store tomorrow & puttin' it on the banner now.  Thanks so much, Scott.  :)

Thanks for putting up the link. Otherwise i might have missed this. This is very exciting. I saw on the website that you can order one issue (not cheap, but money well spent, i think).


Thank you for letting us know about this Scott!
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 09:16:55 am »
Scott, this is why Librarians are my heros.  8)
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 09:53:01 am »
I tried to download the "sample copy"

It is NOT the current issue of the magazine

just thought I'd let others know before they sign up too.

However, my thanks to Clarissa and especially Scott for bringing this to my (our) attention.
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 02:31:27 pm »
The current issue links are on the left-most section. There are two viewable articles, I think, and a table of contents.
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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 05:08:34 pm »
I was able to read the two articles from the current issue. The first article talks mostly about The Deep End and The Deerslayer and just a little about BBM. The second is a synopsis of the movie that is kind of ho-hum. I am so excited about getting the magazine but I went to the three biggest bookstores here this a.m. and none of them had it.  :-\
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 03:11:29 pm »
Thanks for the info!  It's nice to know BBM is still being discussed seriously in film scholarship (really, I'm sure it will continue to be for years and years to come).
 :)
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 04:55:11 pm »
I bought mine today.  So far I'm reading the third aritcle of eight, and tell you what, it has nothing on BetterMost in the analysis department.  I haven't learned much new yet.  A couple of neat aspects I will quote and post about later.


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 08:26:08 am »
Bryan works downtown - had ta go ta a few places before he found a copy for me. (So much fer 'The Biggest Little Bookstore's' reputation - they don't carry that magazine!) - Said he paid over 10$CN for the issue.

He'll be over on Thrusday - then I get ta read my own copy!  ;D
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 04:05:54 pm by Sheriff Roland »
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Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 09:26:30 am »
I bought mine today.  So far I'm reading the third aritcle of eight, and tell you what, it has nothing on BetterMost in the analysis department.  I haven't learned much new yet.  A couple of neat aspects I will quote and post about later.




Oh, please do! I want to know if it's worth getting my wallet open for this issue. they charge 20 dollars for oversees shipping!

any good pictures? 

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moremojo

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Missing pages?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 08:57:51 pm »
Howdy, gang--

I've had a chance to peruse this issue more fully, and I was struck by an apparent omission of possibly up to six pages of text in the special section devoted to Brokeback Mountain! I've not yet had occasion to seek out any other copies for comparison, but it does look like these pages were omitted from the printing altogether and were not, say, torn out of this particular copy by some avid reader.

Firstly, Ara Osterweil's article 'Ang Lee's Lonesome Cowboys' (the fifth item in the special section) begins on page 38, and continues onto page 40, which is faced by an unnumbered page containing an ad pertaining to reprints and copyright permission regarding University of California Press materials. On the verso of this advertisement page, the page is numbered 44, and here begins B. Ruby Rich's article 'Brokering Brokeback: Jokes, Backlashes, and Other Anxieties'! What happened to pages 41 through 43, and the assumed ending of Osterweil's piece?

There is a second similar incongruency with D.A. Miller's article 'On the Universality of Brokeback Mountain' (the seventh item in the special section), which begins on page 50, and is cut off in media res on page 58, which is faced by an unnumbered page containing an ad for the University of Texas Press. On the verso of this advertisement page, we see the beginning of of Joshua Clover and Christopher Nealon's article 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Me', which begins on page 62!

Just a heads up for anyone thinking of purchasing their own copy of this issue. You might want to check for these anomalies first before investing in the product.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 10:09:10 pm »
I can hear my Granny now "It's them Russians!" :laugh:

Thanks for the heads up thought, I will be looking for this.
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Offline tamarack

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2007, 05:45:57 am »

Oh, please do! I want to know if it's worth getting my wallet open for this issue. they charge 20 dollars for oversees shipping!

any good pictures? 



Fabienne - Rather than pay for the shipping why not let me (or someone) get one for you and you can take it home with you from Alberta? Just say some little word about this and I'll order another one.

I just ordered mine last night. I misread what I saw on the website a few days ago and thought that each issue was $40.00 instead of $10.00. The $40.00 was for a year's subscription.

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 05:53:06 am »
Fabienne - Rather than pay for the shipping why not let me (or someone) get one for you and you can take it home with you from Alberta? Just say some little word about this and I'll order another one.

I just ordered mine last night. I misread what I saw on the website a few days ago and thought that each issue was $40.00 instead of $10.00. The $40.00 was for a year's subscription.

Oh yes please! That would be wonderful Lauren, thanks. :)

I'll have something to read on the long flight home...
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Missing pages?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 07:13:20 am »
Howdy, gang--

I've had a chance to peruse this issue more fully, and I was struck by an apparent omission of possibly up to six pages of text in the special section devoted to Brokeback Mountain! I've not yet had occasion to seek out any other copies for comparison, but it does look like these pages were omitted from the printing altogether and were not, say, torn out of this particular copy by some avid reader.

Firstly, Ara Osterweil's article 'Ang Lee's Lonesome Cowboys' (the fifth item in the special section) begins on page 38, and continues onto page 40, which is faced by an unnumbered page containing an ad pertaining to reprints and copyright permission regarding University of California Press materials. On the verso of this advertisement page, the page is numbered 44, and here begins B. Ruby Rich's article 'Brokering Brokeback: Jokes, Backlashes, and Other Anxieties'! What happened to pages 41 through 43, and the assumed ending of Osterweil's piece?

There is a second similar incongruency with D.A. Miller's article 'On the Universality of Brokeback Mountain' (the seventh item in the special section), which begins on page 50, and is cut off in media res on page 58, which is faced by an unnumbered page containing an ad for the University of Texas Press. On the verso of this advertisement page, we see the beginning of of Joshua Clover and Christopher Nealon's article 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Me', which begins on page 62!

Just a heads up for anyone thinking of purchasing their own copy of this issue. You might want to check for these anomalies first before investing in the product.

Bryan tells me (over the phone, this morning) that the same problem exists with copies on Toronto bookshelves. Guess we need to complain to the publishers(?)
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 03:12:24 am »
My copy looks intact.  I have all the numbered pages I should.  Interestingly - and surely coincidentally(?) - page 59 has a black and white photo of two nekkid young fellas tumbling together in the grass.  Your copies couldn't have been censored for that, could they?

Fabienne, there is an entire article that would probably be worth it to you by itself - it's about the phenomenon of love stories about young gay men, written by women for women.   Apparently much more common in parts of Asia, and theorized to have influenced Ang.  The article suggests looking up the word "yaoi" on Amazon.

 

Offline oilgun

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Re: Missing pages?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 07:01:53 pm »
Bryan tells me (over the phone, this morning) that the same problem exists with copies on Toronto bookshelves. Guess we need to complain to the publishers(?)

I can confirm that, I just bought my copy, which was sealed, and the pages mentioned are indeed missing!  What a bummer, I really had to search to find a copy.  I guess I'll have to get my money back from Indigo, pronto!

Edit:  Damn,  I don't have the receipt so I may have trouble getting a refund. 
Could someone who has the missing pages scan and post them, I'd really appreciate it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 07:06:57 pm by oilgun »

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2007, 02:36:19 am »
I can confirm that, I just bought my copy, which was sealed, and the pages mentioned are indeed missing!  What a bummer, I really had to search to find a copy.  I guess I'll have to get my money back from Indigo, pronto!

Edit:  Damn,  I don't have the receipt so I may have trouble getting a refund. 
Could someone who has the missing pages scan and post them, I'd really appreciate it.


No can scan, but LOVE your avatar, oilgun.  :)

Offline oilgun

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2007, 06:29:47 pm »

No can scan, but LOVE your avatar, oilgun.  :)


I love Heath-Smurf!   Now that Spring is really here, I'll have to change it to a more season-appropriate Heath ;-)

A Follow-up to my magazine problem:   I went back to the store and was able to exchange it without a problem.  I was worried because there were only two copies of it when I first bought it but luckily the other copy was still there and it had all its pages. 
I'll be able to sleep tonight, lol! 

I have a scanner so I ccould post the missing pages if someone still needs them.  I did send an email to the magazine asking if they would make the pages available online but I haven't heard back.

moremojo

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2007, 06:35:48 pm »
I did send an email to the magazine asking if they would make the pages available online but I haven't heard back.
Thanks for doing this. They definitely should be made aware that some copies were improperly printed. Making the problematic pages available online would be one solution, as would printing them as addenda in a subsequent issue.

Offline Oregondoggie

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 11:37:22 pm »
Went directly to Powell's Bookstore here in Portland for my copy...but was HUGELY underwhelmed by the totality of the articles upon first read.

Postings and discussions here and on the Dave Cullen site over the past year seem to me to be far more insightful.  Got a vague feeling of critical annoyance and patronization that Brokeback Mountain had become such a touchstone by the manner in which some of the articles were written.  But, as I said, I read it in a rush and need to go back over it slowly.  I hope I am proven wrong.  But, if not, Film Quarterly needs to hear from us   

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2007, 11:46:31 pm »
Went directly to Powell's Bookstore here in Portland for my copy...but was HUGELY underwhelmed by the totality of the articles upon first read.

Postings and discussions here and on the Dave Cullen site over the past year seem to me to be far more insightful.  Got a vague feeling of critical annoyance and patronization that Brokeback Mountain had become such a touchstone by the manner in which some of the articles were written.  But, as I said, I read it in a rush and need to go back over it slowly.  I hope I am proven wrong.  But, if not, Film Quarterly needs to hear from us   

Totally agree - poorly written by professionals who ONLY write about so many films, they have trouble tellin em apart.

High felluttin talk about anythin 'cept the subtleties of our beloved movie. Gets real borin real fast - pretty much a wasted 10$, if ya ask me!
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Offline oilgun

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2007, 02:14:55 pm »
Gets real borin real fast - pretty much a wasted 10$, if ya ask me!


I'm actually enjoying the issue quite a bit.  It has some really interesting perspectives and opinions.  Then again, Ruby Rich calls Nathan Lane Nathan LEE for some bizarre reason and another writer refers to Ennis and Jake instead of Jack.  I guess proof-reading is a thing of the past, lol!  Anyway this carelessness makes one question the validity of the rest of the piece but overall I think the issue makes for a good read.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2007, 03:58:33 am »
I'm actually enjoying the issue quite a bit.  It has some really interesting perspectives and opinions.  Then again, Ruby Rich calls Nathan Lane Nathan LEE for some bizarre reason and another writer refers to Ennis and Jake instead of Jack.  I guess proof-reading is a thing of the past, lol!  Anyway this carelessness makes one question the validity of the rest of the piece but overall I think the issue makes for a good read.


I caught those too, oilgun.  And one writer referred to Captain Kirk and DOCTOR Spock. 


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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 06:23:38 pm »
Went directly to Powell's Bookstore here in Portland for my copy...but was HUGELY underwhelmed by the totality of the articles upon first read.

Postings and discussions here and on the Dave Cullen site over the past year seem to me to be far more insightful.  Got a vague feeling of critical annoyance and patronization that Brokeback Mountain had become such a touchstone by the manner in which some of the articles were written.  But, as I said, I read it in a rush and need to go back over it slowly.  I hope I am proven wrong.  But, if not, Film Quarterly needs to hear from us   
Nevertheless, would somebody mind bringing a copy to the BBQ? I went to all four of the biggest bookstores in Denver and wasn't able to obtain it. Thanks!
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2007, 07:33:48 am »
Dang, the whole issue sound like a mess. I think I'll keep my $10. ;)
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Re: Missing pages?
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2007, 11:29:17 am »
I can confirm that, I just bought my copy, which was sealed, and the pages mentioned are indeed missing!  What a bummer, I really had to search to find a copy.  I guess I'll have to get my money back from Indigo, pronto!

Edit:  Damn,  I don't have the receipt so I may have trouble getting a refund. 
Could someone who has the missing pages scan and post them, I'd really appreciate it.

I have a copy - can you PM me and let me know what pages that you know of are missing? As far as I know, my own copy is intact (although it got a little wrinkled up in a recent rainstorm that would have impressed Noah.....)

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2007, 06:56:44 pm »
Pages 41 and 42, as well as 59 and 60 are missing from my copy. Oilgun did send me an attachment with those pages which I could send you (or you could PM oilgun and ask him to send you the same, if those are the pages you too have missing ...)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2007, 11:59:29 am »
Some Canadians on imdb were complaining about missing pages, too. I don't know exactly what city they were in, possibly Toronto. Maybe it's just one bad batch?  ???

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2007, 01:31:00 pm »
I recently had the chance to read this thanks to Ellemeno who brought me a copy at the BBQ (thank you so much, Clarissa!) and I found the articles thought-provoking but also sometimes maddening, puzzling, and upsetting. I would like to discuss them if anyone's interested.

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Offline Oregondoggie

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2007, 07:55:13 pm »
I recently had the chance to read this thanks to Ellemeno who brought me a copy at the BBQ (thank you so much, Clarissa!) and I found the articles thought-provoking but also sometimes maddening, puzzling, and upsetting. I would like to discuss them if anyone's interested.


Although Jack Schilling (brokeback_1) feels that this magazine gives Brokeback Mountain official canonical status, I recall with distaste that a couple of the articles were "just plain crap"...Joshua Clover and Christopher Nealon comparing BBM to a Madonna video and "Marlboro" type cowboys.  Statements by D.A. Miller that "erotic disappointment may well be the only genuine homosexual response to BBM  --and hence the only genuine basis for a political crticque of the film."  BULL.  These articles are an academic sop to the members of the Academy who got properly nipped by the Dave Cullen site ad in Variety last year.

I hope someone calmer and more articulate than myself can deconstruct these patronizing pieces of deconstruction.  Better yet, let Film Quarterly discover that careless articles have consequences...

« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 08:03:03 pm by Oregondoggie »

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2007, 10:44:25 pm »
That article about the Madonna video was pretty tacky...but there was one thing that I found very interesting. The author talked about how the images in the video were "flattened" and it reminded me of the phrase in the story, during the prologue, about how Ennis "let a panel of the dream slide forward." As well as the many other "flat" references.

Not to apologize for the magazine's authors, but maybe those articles were written when people were still amazed over the phenomenon of the movie and were trying to explain it.

The article that was the most disturbing to me was the one that described the industry that was created to cater to older women wanting subject matter about gay men...that was pretty disgusting!!

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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2007, 08:48:15 am »
My biggest objection was that the articles focused too much on the film as a political and cultural breakthrough and not enough about the film's artistry. Not that the political/cultural stuff isn't important, but it's only one piece of what makes BBM a masterpiece.

Think of all we've written here analyzing the subtexts and symbols and mirrors and bookends, etc., that FQ didn't really touch on. They should have gotten one of us to write something!
 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2007, 09:13:14 am »
The article that was the most disturbing to me was the one that described the industry that was created to cater to older women wanting subject matter about gay men...that was pretty disgusting!!

That does sound kinda disgusting. However, I have to admit, and no offense intended, I have often puzzled over the appeal of this film and this story to straight women, regardless of age (beyond the obvious points that Brokeback Mountain is an astonishing feat of cinematic art and of short-story writing).  ???
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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2007, 10:25:07 am »
Think of all we've written here analyzing the subtexts and symbols and mirrors and bookends, etc., that FQ didn't really touch on. They should have gotten one of us to write something!
We Brokies are surely creating one of the most extensive and insightful exegeses of any film ever. This one site alone provides a powerful antithesis to much of the shallow pap found in that issue of Film Quarterly, and other culturally/economically sanctioned critical fora.

One thing I've come to feel about Brokeback Mountain is that its importance transcends normal critical discourse. I don't believe I've ever encountered a story/film with so much power to change people's lives for the better. I think this work's main and most enduring impact exists on a spiritual level even more than an aesthetic or cultural one.


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2007, 10:50:38 am »
Another thing that bothered me was that in some pieces I sensed a bit of an us vs. them -- i.e., gay vs. straight -- tone. For example, and I wish I had the magazine in front of me but I'm going from month-old memory, there was a mention of the Variety ad and the members of the DCF raising money for it that implied it was an action taken entirely by gay people. Excuse me, but I contributed to that ad, and I know I'm not the only straight person who did.  >:( That approach seems unnecessarily divisive and suggests the writer didn't fully understand how and why viewers were affected by the movie.

I have often puzzled over the appeal of this film and this story to straight women, regardless of age (beyond the obvious points that Brokeback Mountain is an astonishing feat of cinematic art and of short-story writing).  ???

If you're talking about the erotic aspects as apart from all the other great qualities, I think you can chalk that up as one of the many mysteries of human sexuality. One look at the fanfic forum tells you there are a lot of straight women who find the situation appealing.

I myself am not a big frequenter of the fanfic forum, but I can tell you that it's very compelling to see people of any gender combination expressing love and passion as authentically and movingly as Jack and Ennis do. That in this case they happen to be played by two hot actors doesn't hurt, either.  ;)




Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2007, 10:59:12 am »
I have to admit, and no offense intended, I have often puzzled over the appeal of this film and this story to straight women, regardless of age (beyond the obvious points that Brokeback Mountain is an astonishing feat of cinematic art and of short-story writing).  ???

If you're talking about the erotic aspects as apart from all the other great qualities, I think you can chalk that up as one of the many mysteries of human sexuality. One look at the fanfic forum tells you there are a lot of straight women who find the situation appealing.

I myself am not a big frequenter of the fanfic forum, but I can tell you that it's very compelling to see people of any gender combination expressing love and passion as authentically and movingly as Jack and Ennis do. That in this case they happen to be played by two hot actors doesn't hurt, either.  ;)

Well, yes, that was more-or-less what I've wondered about. I've wondered, too, if in trying to understand I was over-thinking or over-analyzing, and if it isn't simply the flip side of the stereotypical straight male fascination with "girl-on-girl action." Haven't wanted to go there, though, because it seemed, well, stereotypical, condescending, and possibly even insulting to women.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2007, 11:27:42 am »
I don't have the magazine in front of me, and I too am working from months-long memory, but I recall that one article addressing the feminine response to the film invoking the long-established phenomenon in East Asian countries of male homoerotic art and literature being created for and being consumed by adolescent girls and women. The author, I recall, was suggesting that Lee was consciously working from that angle in crafting his interpretation of the story. On the face of it, I didn't find anything in the article offensive; certainly, it has long been recognized that the majority of consumers of homoerotic manga (Japanese comics) are girls and women.

This is an interesting field of exploration, and potentially quite valuable in regard to Brokeback Mountain (the film), as long as the author's arguments are seen as speculative rather than authoritative.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2007, 11:29:38 am »
I've wondered, too, if in trying to understand I was over-thinking or over-analyzing, and if it isn't simply the flip side of the stereotypical straight male fascination with "girl-on-girl action." Haven't wanted to go there, though, because it seemed, well, stereotypical, condescending, and possibly even insulting to women.  :-\

No, it's a valid question. And if you can't ask it here, where CAN you ask it?

I'm no expert (as Scott might say, this is speculative rather than authoritative  :)), but I think they're different, and here's why. The stereotypical straight male fascination with GOG action strikes me as a bit more exploitative. To me, it seems as if the men like the idea of the women putting on a show for their benefit. As far as I can tell, straight men are not as fascinated by watching two lesbians, i.e., women who have no sexual interest in men, as they are by two women -- in many cases, straight women -- who create an implied threesome with the voyeuristic viewer. For instance, those girls who make out in "Girls Gone Gone Wild" videos seem to be straight women who wouldn't ordinarily be making out but who do it for the sake of being filmed for a product that will be marketed to straight men (crass and tasteless straight men, I might add, along with some other adjectives, but that's a different story). And that appears to me to be what straight men find most appealing. (If anyone can correct me on this, feel free -- I've never actually discussed this with any straight man who admits to finding this hot, so these are just assumptions based on cultural observation.)

But women who like slash seem to be fine with the idea that the men are there for each other. Oh, some might fantasize about being there in the tent with Jack and Ennis, for example, but that's not essential to enjoying the scene.

But what they have in common, I think, is an equation that applies to straight people of either gender, which is: Attractive people of opposite sex  +  sex  X  2  =  hot.

Does that make sense and sound right?



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2007, 11:42:47 am »
Thank you, Katherine, it makes very good sense and sounds right, too.

I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?

It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2007, 12:15:33 pm »
I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?

Correct.  :)

Quote
It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.

I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ...  ???

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2007, 12:25:54 pm »
I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ...  ???

Sure enough! I doubt we have too many of the latter!  :laugh:

Tell you what, since I've stuck my neck out so far already, I might as well stick it out farther and admit that I've wondered whether any straight women "identify" with either Ennis or Jack particularly in TS2.

I certainly know the answer to that question for one gay man. ...  ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2007, 01:13:48 pm »
For what it's worth, I can weigh in as a gay man who enjoys seeing men and women together (whether it is in the context of a romantic depiction, or a sexually explicit one). Many of my gay male friends cannot relate to this (specifically regarding the issue of heterosexual erotica/pornography), and some have found me eccentric for my appreciation. I should emphasize that it is the presence of the men that invests these depictions with erotic appeal for me, but for the more generally romantic ones, the gender of the participants has no bearing on my positive response. In the same context, I can find scenarios involving only women appealing in this general way, without my response extending into the erotic.

For the record, my favorite gay film (apart from Brokeback Mountain, which transcends categorization anyway), which is also the gayest film I've ever seen (and I do mean that in a positive, non-sarcastic way), is Werner Schroeter's 1972 masterpiece Der Tod der Maria Malibran, which is populated almost wholly with female characters (not all of them played by women).

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2007, 02:56:01 pm »
I think my response is at least partly similar, Scott. Before Brokeback, I had assumed I would not find a love scene between two men particularly erotic, because, well, what's in it for me? I figured that if I found a heterosexual love scene sexy, it was because I identified with the woman and imagined myself in the scene in her place.

Turns out I was wrong. In analyzing my response to BBM, I realized it wasn't that I identified with the woman in a heterosexual scene, it was that I found the man in the scene attractive (assuming I did -- if not, forget the whole thing). So in a love scene between two people, at least one of whom is a man, I can identify with the other person regardless of gender.

In Brokeback, I find BOTH men attractive, which just doubles the fun -- I can put myself in either of their places. But if I had to pick one or the other, to answer Jeff's question

I've wondered whether any straight women "identify" with either Ennis or Jack particularly in TS2.

I certainly know the answer to that question for one gay man. ...  ::)

I'm pretty sure my answer, Jeff, would be the opposite of yours!  ;D ::) ;)


Offline Toast

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2007, 04:22:52 pm »
As a Canada Day gift, I am unveiling
the Brokeback Mountain articles from
Fi l m Qu ar ter ly, spring 2007.
I have scanned the pages as images and as a text document.


The text of the articles is HERE.

The page images are HERE.

Note the image names reflect page number and title of the article.



TWO DISCLAIMERS:

Photobucket has it's ways.
It seems to upload the files in alphabetic order, and then display them in order of latest upload - reversing the order of the files.

The photos printed with the articles were printed in grey scale, so please remember that I did not scan incorrectly and lose the image color.


ps LIMITED TIME OFFER
DUE TO COPYRIGHT RESTRICTIONS, ........
.........
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 07:44:40 pm by Toast »

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2007, 08:50:55 pm »
Yall, this is what a cool brokie on DC had to say about it:  http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=9675.msg905046#msg905046

Offline Fran

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2007, 01:55:30 pm »
Wow, Toast!  Thanks for taking the time to post this.  I know I couldn't find that particular issue of Film Quarterly at my bookstore in Chicago.  Thanks for including the photos, too. 

And I'll bet there are some unplayed words in those articles that we can incorporate into the ABCs game one of these rounds....

:)

Offline Toast

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NOW we can all read the Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2007, 04:23:48 pm »
Three posts back, for all your reading pleasure


Marge_Innavera

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Re: Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2007, 10:54:59 am »
My biggest objection was that the articles focused too much on the film as a political and cultural breakthrough and not enough about the film's artistry. Not that the political/cultural stuff isn't important, but it's only one piece of what makes BBM a masterpiece.

Think of all we've written here analyzing the subtexts and symbols and mirrors and bookends, etc., that FQ didn't really touch on. They should have gotten one of us to write something!

IMO a lot of readers were expecting this magazine to be somethiing it isn't. The articles are sometimes being referred to as "reviews" and they're not. They're a specifically academic approach.

I could actually recognize some of my college classroom experiences in these articles. The best of the articles were like some of the lectures I heard that I'd rehash with classmates late at night (while we were solving all of the world's problems!  ;D  )  The Miller piece immediately made me think of a professor I had who was something of a joke with his students; the phrase "you need to get out more" was pretty much made for him.  Miller's blatant misogyny and narcissism were distressing but not particularly surprising.