Author Topic: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.  (Read 27630 times)

Offline Mikaela

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2007, 05:04:26 pm »
I agree the scene was better left out of the film, but I would *love* to see it. Not only because both of the guys look good on horseback, either.  ;)

Jack and Ennis, relaxed and comfortable with each other before the strain of years took too much of a toll. Jack and Ennis, bantering with each other and actually even engaging in some mild innuendo? You bet I'd like to see that, and to hear the "well hung up" comment, complete with that glance from Ennis.   :P  :)

I think showing them like that, in the early stage of their "fishing trips period", may have been the main purpose of the scene: Showing them still mainly happy and delighted in each other's company, while also a bit more mature and more confident in their relationship.

I think the hippies  were there to demonstrate which time period the film had reached, plus to contrast the "summer of free love" lifestyle with J&E and their environment, where they so carefully still have to hide their love.  I just can't believe the point of this was to show that our cowboys weren't interested in what the girls had on offer. We knew that.  ::)

I've read this before so perhaps I've gotten used to the idea of this scene and its dialogue. At any rate, Pleeeeeeaaaase give us that DVD with the deleted scenes that we crave! Pretty please! (Where's the puppy-dog-eye icon?)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2007, 05:27:50 pm »
I think the hippies  were there to demonstrate which time period the film had reached, plus to contrast the "summer of free love" lifestyle with J&E and their environment, where they so carefully still have to hide their love.

Well, that makes sense. (And as Jeff Wrangler has noted elsewhere, the Summer of Love in 1967 was the year of their reunion!)

Still, I kind of like the way the actual movie keeps them more or less isolated from current events and changes in the outside culture. We hear about Vietnam only in the most indirect vague way. We see changing fashions. But otherwise, the characters seem to occupy a completely isolated and sealed off world, which makes a point in itself.

I could get used to the double entendre line. The only other direct sexual reference that either of them ever makes is Jack's comment about high-altitude f*cks. I like that line a lot, so in another context I can see liking the "well hung up" comment for the same reason.

What I hate most about the dialogue are the remarks about hippies being un-American and "we ought to scalp him." Yuck! They no doubt accurately depict typical attitudes of that time and place, but still. Yuck.

And if the scene is meant to say something about changing sexual mores, it seems a long way to go to make that point. Especially compared to the economy of the rest of the film. Compare that to how much is said (or at least, how much we have speculated is said) by the simple presence of a heavily tattooed woman on the dance floor!

If they wanted to show them relaxed and comfortable in each other's company, I'd MUCH rather see the "that's one a two things I need right now!" scene from the story, or something like that.


Offline Mikaela

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2007, 05:50:28 pm »
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Still, I kind of like the way the actual movie keeps them more or less isolated from current events and changes in the outside culture. We hear about Vietnam only in the most indirect vague way. We see changing fashions. But otherwise, the characters seem to occupy a completely isolated and sealed off world, which makes a point in itself.

I completely agree with that. I wasn't trying to defend the purpose of the scene, nor argue that it should hhave been in the film, but merely to make some sense of the possible purpose and see the original writer's point of view. To me this is over-evident instead of multi-layered, like that scene in one of the early script versions where Ennis and Cassie go to watch one of the Star Wars films. Sure would single out the year(s) in question, but like you I'm of course really glad they toned down all those *big* cultural timing landmark moments, and made the film and the story more timeless and universal. It's still firmly grounded in time, place and culture, to my mind.

"LOOK, people! Time is passing, and now we have reached... The Empire Strikes Back!"  ::) I don't think so. The hippes were filmed, though, while the star wars scene wasn't - so the hippies had more going for them in the end.


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What I hate most about the dialogue are the remarks about hippies being un-American and "we ought to scalp him." Yuck! They no doubt accurately depict typical attitudes of that time and place, but still. Yuck.

That *is* horrid. I think I repressed and forgot that line the very instant I'd read it, because it's so far from what *my* J&E would say or think.  ::)  Playing devil's advocate here; it would have served the purpose of bringing across that our guys did in fact   have unsavoury prejudices of their own.... They weren't saints and nobody's perfect.

(That's actually an interesting discussion point: Whether J&E's suffering under unfair prejudices made them more or less understanding and considerate of people being subjected to other types of unfairness based on commonly held biased opinions in that time and place.  I'm sure it must have been discussed somewhere at length. ETA: Yes of course! The discussion about Ennis's attitude towards Alma and her work vs. her responsibilities as wife and mother, for instance.)

But no matter, I would have *hated* that line. **shudders**

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If they wanted to show them relaxed and comfortable in each other's company, I'd MUCH rather see the "that's one a two things I need right now!" scene from the story, or something like that.

And everyone cried: Amen!!  :)


Hey, it's very nice to actually be in a bit of a BBM discussion again! It's been ages since I found anything to say at all.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 05:58:21 pm by Mikaela »

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2007, 05:51:20 pm »


            True that Mel.  I wonder if James Schamus wrote it?  Since he is the one that supposedly campaigned for it to be included.??

Yes, he supposedly wrote the entire scene.

L
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2007, 05:56:16 pm »
Quote
Yes, he supposedly wrote the entire scene.

We ought to scalp him!

 ;D ;D ::) ::)




I'm sorry. Won't happen again. It was just so. tempting.   :-X

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2007, 06:04:02 pm »
We ought to scalp him!

 ;D ;D ::) ::)




I'm sorry. Won't happen again. It was just so. tempting.   :-X


 :laugh:



Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2007, 06:42:07 pm »
Hey, it's very nice to actually be in a bit of a BBM discussion again! It's been ages since I found anything to say at all.

Hey, it's very nice to HAVE you here! I've missed your insightful posts!  :)

Quote
(That's actually an interesting discussion point: Whether J&E's suffering under unfair prejudices made them more or less understanding and considerate of people being subjected to other types of unfairness based on commonly held biased opinions in that time and place.  I'm sure it must have been discussed somewhere at length. ETA: Yes of course! The discussion about Ennis's attitude towards Alma and her work vs. her responsibilities as wife and mother, for instance.)

It has also come up, I think, in hypothetical discussions over whether Ennis would say anything homophobic about OTHER gay men. Personally, I've always thought of him as being too worried about hiding his own minority-group status to worry about attacking others for theirs. That's another reason I hate those lines -- they seem so out of character. True, Ennis does get aggressive from time to time, but otherwise not in a prejudiced way so much as just a general hot-headed way.


Offline Mikaela

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2007, 07:02:38 pm »
Thank you Katherine.  :)

Anyway, had the scene been in, I can imagine not only enjoying the banter and innuendo, but also the lengthy discussions we might have had on -for instance -  the symbolism of Jack's hat being lost. And on the contrast between what J&E *say* and what they immediately do (going at once to help out and rescue). And what food were the hippies unpacking, exactly? Any symbolism there? And so on. We would have had a field day, even if the scene *was* somewhat jarring. Oh yes, despite the film being obviously better without it, still a very tiny little sigh for opportunities missed till we eventually get to see the deleted scene as originally filmed. Perhaps the dialogue wasn't at all filmed in full as written. Perhaps the whole scalping comment was.... uhm, scalped.


Better late than never: I'd like to thank you Toast for making this thread and including all the images at the appropriate place in the script. Makes the scene come alive, it does!  :)

Offline Toast

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2007, 10:27:30 pm »
You're Welcome Mikaela and everyone else that has added comments.

It is great to be discussing something new and getting different opinions about the bits and pieces.

I read and digested the piece months ago and my first feelings were mirrored today in the words here.

I, too, am glad it was left out;  it is a jarring thing to read, but there are those little togetherness moments in there that I would love to see.

My pleasure has been in reading your words, and having an old-time discussion going again.

Ennis really isn't that square.

James Schamus did not improve anything with this scene.

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2007, 10:53:47 pm »
Here's a link to a radio interview with Heath Ledger.  When asked about deleted scenes he talks about filming the Hippy scene.

He didn't care for it either!   ;D
 
http://inquirer.philly.com/rss/features/ReaLedger120805.wma

It's downloadable to keep.