Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?

[Brown Eyes]

Heya,

So, I watched BBM again today and it never, ever fails that I think up a new question or observation every time I watch.

This time it's a sort of complex idea, but I think pretty interesting.  The one explicit scene we see of Aguirre watching Jack and Ennis together up on Brokeback, clearly comes during the scene we often call the "happy tussle" right after TS2.  The happy tussle scene is first presented to the viewer as a long-shot, simply observing Jack and Ennis's romp from quite a distance.  It's only after the camera swings around and we see that we were actually inhabiting the place of Aguirre from behind his binoculars (with large, powerful lenses) that we understand how we were able to see the boys' romp.

This got me thinking about a few other scenes earlier in the film, actually prior to TS1 where we see Ennis and Jack interacting from quite a far distance/ through the filmmaker's use of the "long shot"... there are about 3 instances when they're picking camp sites, moving the flock and setting up camp when we see them from quite far off and we can hear the murmurs of their voices as they talk to each other... but, we are too far away to understand what they're saying.  In those "long shot" moments I've always felt like I, as a viewer, am being placed in the position of a voyeur or a trespasser on their private interactions.

One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

And, then what are the implications for the way the later camping trips are filmmed with Jack and Ennis in the years following the reunion?  In the many  long shots and very distant views we get on Jack and Ennis in several of their later camping trips, are we supposed to wonder or imagine that there are other observers (i.e. other campers, etc.) watching them from afar like we are?

[mariez]

Amanda, you come up with some great observations! 

One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

I think he started watching them earlier.  We don't have any direct indication that he did, but by the time of the happy tussle they would have been up there, what, about a month?  I don't think he would've waited that long to start watching them; he seemed pretty cynical ("pair of deuces") about how well they would follow instructions and just about them in general.

And, then what are the implications for the way the later camping trips are filmmed with Jack and Ennis in the years following the reunion?  In the many  long shots and very distant views we get on Jack and Ennis in several of their later camping trips, are we supposed to wonder or imagine that there are other observers (i.e. other campers, etc.) watching them from afar like we are?

I don't think this ever occurred to me, but it's really interesting to consider!  As with almost everything in the story, there are a couple of ways to look at it.  If they were being watched from afar, it would show that even way out in the "middle of nowhere" they couldn't get away from society's prying eyes (but, yet, none of the "observers" came after them with tire irons). 

Or those later long shots and very distant views could be a way of showing us just how far out in the middle of nowhere they needed to go in order to be truly free from prying eyes and danger. 

Thanks, Amanda! 

Marie

[Brown Eyes]

Thanks Marie!

And, I agree that I think Aguirre probably started watching Jack and Ennis earlier on.  It's only during the happy tussle when the viewer (i.e. us) begins to understand how the activity of observing Jack and Ennis is portrayed on film or through the medium of filmmaking.

If you watch earlier in the film when Jack and Ennis are picking a camp site with the sheep, there's a very particular scene where Jack is on his horse parallel to the film screen (or he's shown in profile on his horse looking left) and Ennis enters the scene on his horse coming or emerging from the space of the viewer.  In that scene it's very clear that Jack and Ennis are talking to one another, but it's very, very hard to hear what they're saying.  If you turn the volume up really, really far you might be able to make it out. 

And, then later when they're setting up TS2, there's that famous long-shot/ distant view of Jack selecting the driftwood log near the stream and Ennis comes up and seems to pat Jack on the shoulder as he hoists the log up.  This is another instance where the view is so far away, that we feel very excluded from direct access to the activity going on.

So, these two moments really make me wonder if there's at least a hint that we're watching from a similar vantage point as Aguirre does through his binoculars during the happy tussle.

There are lots of much later camping scenes that employ long shots... and also the device of muffled voices... of Jack and Ennis talking to one another without the viewer being able to hear clearly.

It's such an unusual filmming strategy.  I really do wonder if this is really meant to make the viewer feel like an intruder on these private moments... or moments that Jack and Ennis really want to keep as private and personal.

[Artiste]

Merci atz !

Your post is very interesting!

Could it be possible that Aquirre is gay, or pro-gay, or neutral???

He sure has an eye ? So, could he be a con-artist instead?-Somewhat one?

Or what is he ?

To me, that long shot camera range, as you put it, provides questions, at least that can be posed?


What do you think Atz, Mariez, and others


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Brown Eyes]

Well, this question isn't so much about Aguirre's attitude one way or another.  It's about the clue we get about viewing positions based on Aguirre's use of binoculars.

This is about where we as viewers are situated when we observe Jack and Ennis in the film.

[Artiste]

Atz:

I was just about to say what you say:
            It's about the clue we get about viewing positions based on Aguirre's use of binoculars.

This is about where we as viewers are situated when we observe Jack and Ennis in the film.

           
........

To me, that long shot provides anwser(s) at leats one answered by Mariez; and especially adds questions (some I mentioned)!!

But, it's much, much, much more... like forecasting trouble is coming! ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Penthesilea]

There a some really good observations Amanda .

The happy tussle scene is first presented to the viewer as a long-shot, simply observing Jack and Ennis's romp from quite a distance.  It's only after the camera swings around and we see that we were actually inhabiting the place of Aguirre from behind his binoculars (with large, powerful lenses) that we understand how we were able to see the boys' romp.

My reaction to this swing of the camera was first a sharp intake of breath, like OMG, Aguirre is watching them, they're caught. Followed by a vague sense of being the voyeur myself, almost feeling guilty about it.

There are lots of much later camping scenes that employ long shots... and also the device of muffled voices... of Jack and Ennis talking to one another without the viewer being able to hear clearly.

It's such an unusual filmming strategy.  I really do wonder if this is really meant to make the viewer feel like an intruder on these private moments... or moments that Jack and Ennis really want to keep as private and personal.

Yes, definitively. The long distance shots are one way Ang Lee demonstrated this to us. Lee himself often emphasized how sacred their relationship is to them, and that they want to keep it private because it is so precious. I think keeping it a secret was both, a curse and a blessing. It was a curse because they were forced to keep it secret and it took its toll over the years (think of the lake side argument). But especially in the earlier years it was also a blessing, it was at least partly wanted by them because it made it even more special, sweet and sacred. A sweet secret.

One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

Referring to the short story he didn't: "They believed themselves invisible, not knowing Joe Aguirre had watched them through his 10X42 binoculars for ten minutes one day, waiting ..."

I think this is exactly what Ang Lee wanted to show us, I don't think he intented to hint that Aguirre (or someone else in the later years) watched them. We (the audience)are the voyeurs, but even we are not allowed to see and hear everything. Restraint, as so often with Lee. He doesn't expose everything of the boys, in parts he allows them to keep their privacy, their secret.

I know I'm mixing different viewpoints in the last sentence; the outside viewpoint from a moviemaker's position, and the viewpoint from within the story, where Ennis and Jack are real. But I think that's just what Ang Lee did (and every movie making person should do, be it actor, screenwriter or director): thinking about how something effects the audience and thinking inside the logic, the circumstances of the story.

[Artiste]

Like a Bettermost member, I will not name, would say maybe: Aquirre is house-sitting his two boys-ranch young men Ennis and Jack so to see if they are doing their job keeping the sheep well and alive; Aquirre's investment are those animals !! So that camera long shot showing Aquirre looking at them is a nescessity for Aquirre to keep his money investment as well as we, the audience become in Aquirre's feet as a voyeur!

[Brown Eyes]

My reaction to this swing of the camera was first a sharp intake of breath, like OMG, Aguirre is watching them, they're caught. Followed by a vague sense of being the voyeur myself, almost feeling guilty about it.
 
...


I think this is exactly what Ang Lee wanted to show us, I don't think he intented to hint that Aguirre (or someone else in the later years) watched them. We (the audience)are the voyeurs, but even we are not allowed to see and hear everything. Restraint, as so often with Lee. He doesn't expose everything of the boys, in parts he allows them to keep their privacy, their secret.

I know I'm mixing different viewpoints in the last sentence; the outside viewpoint from a moviemaker's position, and the viewpoint from within the story, where Ennis and Jack are real. But I think that's just what Ang Lee did (and every movie making person should do, be it actor, screenwriter or director): thinking about how something effects the audience and thinking inside the logic, the circumstances of the story.

Thanks Chrissi!

I think your point about a vague (perhaps very vague) sense of guilt on the part of the viewer for intruding is a really interesting element of BBM to recognize.  And, I completely agree that sorting out the film viewer's point of view, the filmmaker's point of view and the various points of view of characters within the story is a really complex task.  But, it's interesting to think that Ang Lee is going to some effort (in the happy tussle scene and maybe in other scenes too) to make us the film viewer very aware that we have a role of some kind within the structure of the film. 

So, here's a big question.  Are we supposed to funchtion as "society" in our constant desire to observe the interactions between Ennis and Jack?  Are we the faceless, mass society that is always of concern to Ennis in particular?

And, as you mention, Ang Lee protects Ennis and Jack from us in certain scenes when we can't see them well and can't really hear what they're saying to each other.  I agree that the secret between Jack and Ennis is both a blessing and a curse.

Thinking about scenes later in the film when we seem to be positioned as film viewers as unwelcome voyeurs... the skinny dipping scene comes to mind as another case were we view what Ennis and Jack are doing from a great distance.  We can here the statement "last one in!!" as they jump into the water.  But, we're really mainly excluded from that scene.

[Artiste]

Last one in, but too bad it's not a close-up!


So why so far away? Is LEE islamic?

[chowhound]

Personally, I'd be surprised if Aguirre had spied upon Jack and Ennis before this incident. It looks as though it well might take him 3-4 hours to get up there and 3-4 hours to get back. Surely he has a better way of employing his time.

What does Aguirre see through his binoculars, I wonder?  I doubt if he sees what I see. I see a delightful new stage in Jack and Ennis's relationship. Night has been replaced by day and the closed privacy of the tent by the sunny outdoors. What was once tentative has now become playful as they chase each other around, the tussle ending not in Jack kissing Ennis but, significantly, in Ennis kissing Jack.

Does Aguirre see anything of this joyfulness, this fun? Maybe he glimpses it briefly but I think that would be all. Certainly his later summary - "stemming the rose" - suggests that sex is about all he is capable of seeing.

The counterpart to this scene is, of course, when Alma sees the passionate reunion kiss of jack and Ennis, though, once more, they are unaware that they are being watched. (Is it just a coincidence that in both scenes the viewers don't see things directly but through something else - Aguirre through the lens of his binoculars, Alma through the glass of the screen door?). The difference between the two scenes is that Alma has no way of "reading" the situation though she may be aware of a passion in Ennis that she herself has never experienced. (For the viewer, like me, "reading" the situation poses no problems). The memory of this scene is clearly something which gnaws away at Alma though when she finally decides that she does know how to "read" the situation is unclear. Obviously, by the Thanksgiving dinner, she has, though presumably this is a "reading" she has reached earlier.

[Artiste]

Merci chowhound !

How delightful is your post!

You sure bring good news !


You say:
        Surely he (Aquirre) has a better way of employing his time.

                 
.....

Chowhound, Aquirre's job isn't it  his investment, his sheep, and therefore, he must know if his workers (Ennis and Jack) are doing their jobs; so spying is Aguirre's way to find out secretly !

And I love it that you connect Alma's viewing of Ennis and Jack kissings and hugs are watched by her too secretly !!

More please... more secrets by observers ??

au revoir,
hugs!

[chowhound]

Hi Artiste
   I understand Aguirre's financial connection to the sheep but I still feel it would be a big task to make his way up Brokeback to see if Jack and Ennis were doing their jobs. And, if he found out they weren't, what could he do then? He could scarcely fire them as who then would look after the sheep?
 I find it interesting, that, although he's seen Jack and Ennis fooling around, he says nothing when he gets to Jack's camp. Maybe he's partially mollified as, when he uses his binoculars for the second time, he sees Ennis doing his job and tending the sheep. (Interestingly, what he sees is a mirror image of what we have seen earlier when Jack and Ennis are first making their way up Brokeback. In both cases, Ennis is carrying a baby lamb in a sling at the side of his horse. Ennis, the good shepherd, I imagine).
  A possible counterpoint to the two scenes where Jack and Ennis are seen by others, though they are unaware they are being watched, are two scenes where one of them is looking for the other from far away but can't find what they are looking for. The first of these scenes is when Jack has gone up to be with the sheep on the first night. After setting up his tent, he sits outside and looks down the mountain, hoping, I think, to catch a glimpse of Ennis but all he can make out is the smoke rising from the campfire below. The second scene is when Ennis looks up the mountain, hoping to find Jack, but can't make him out. This occurs when he is washing the blue coffee pot in the stream. (If you have StripedWall, it's images 291-95). Fortunately, as the movie progresses, they do manage to see each other much more clearly, closely and directly.

[Artiste]

Merci chowhound !

You post is again very interesting !

You say about Aguirre:
        He could scarcely fire them as who then would look after the sheep?
               
......

Chowhound, I think that he could easily get rid of Ennis and Jack, if not right there and then, at least in a few days after getting replacements ! But, Aguirre keeps both Ennis and Jack and, that is what is puzzling ? To me, it is a puzzle: (A) Is Aguirre a [bcongenial[/b] person/boss? What is his motivation, if he (Aguirre) is not gay himself ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

I still think that one as a viewer can see Aguirre as a gay person, and/or at least as a voyeur because those long shots show us that!

Anyone agree??

[Katie77]

I have just read thru the posts here, and Amanda, your observations are really brilliant, and reading how you explain it, makes it seem a very feasible possibility that the boys were being watched at other times than the scene we see Aguire with the binoculars. Next time I watch the film, I will look at it from that perspective, just to see if my opinion changes.

I agree with Chowhound that the distance the boys were from Aguire's trailer was probably too far for him to travel to make regular inspections. Considering that it seemed like a long enough trip for Ennis to go back to the bridge to get the food supplies.

I have always wondered why Aguire even went up to the camp to tell Jack about his uncle. In some ways, it seems very much out of character for someone like Aguire to take on such a trip for a compassionate reason. If it was Jack's father or mother maybe, but not just for his uncle. Even the fact that Jack's mother knew who to ring, with the news of the uncle in the first place is a bit of a mystery. My thought on Aguire, getting a phone call like that, would have him saying...."Well WTF do you want me to do, he could be anywhere up in those mountains, and Im not goin to find him".....

And what was the purpose anyway, did he think Jack would roll up his tent and say "I must go and sit with my sick uncle"....what would have happened to the sheep then?

The only reason I can see why AGuire did the trip up the mountain, was to maybe check on the boys, but I do think it was the first time that he did. I think the second time he went up, just to tell Jack his uncle was OK, definately was for the reason of checking out the boys, not for a sexual thrill,  but just to see if they were watching the sheep properly. Maybe even with the intention, that if he saw them rolling around on the ground again, he might have fired them, or told them to bring the sheep down.

I think we as the viewer were meant to feel anxiety that someone like Aguire had spotted them, and then we would worry about the consequences.

Just the same as when Alma opened the door, the same shock and anxiety and fear of their secret getting out.

It also showed us, that as much as they tried to do everything privately, and thought that they had never been caught, they had been, and Ennis in particular would have been mortified if he had known he had been seen. Jack, on the other hand, after the "stemming the rose" conversation with Aguire did know they had been spotted, but knew not to tell Ennis about it.

I think all of these scenes were to cause the viewer the same anxieties that Ennis was feeling. How many of us thought, "OMG Ennis would have a seizure if he knew Aguire saw them, or if he knew Alma saw them"......we were shocked when it happend, but then had to hope that Ennis would not find out, or he might then have finished the relationship with Jack once and for all.

I dont think Aguire was gay, or even a voyeur. I got the feeling that he was disgusted with what he saw, and tried to make Jack feel that way when he confronted him about it.

[Artiste]

Katie, your post is delightful !

I would like very much to answer many of your thoughts, and for now, talk about this which you say:
         
I dont think Aguire was gay, or even a voyeur. I got the feeling that he was disgusted with what he saw, and tried to make Jack feel that way when he confronted him about it.


                         
..........

Katie, if you take the view that Aguirre liked Jack or had a crush on him, then maybe that is the reason he went up to see Jack, not only once but twice, and maybe more often ?

May I ask you, (and to all too), why did Aguirre hire Jack a second time ?


Au revoir,
hugs!