At what moment in BBM did you realize that they were falling in love?

[Brown Eyes]

Hi Artiste,
I definitely agree that there's something significant going on between Ennis and Jack right from the very beginning.  Since it's silent, it's nearly impossible to assign the opening (wonderful) scene one meaning.  I think essentially, they're each checking the other out.  And, I think Jack is more conscious of the nature of his interest in Ennis... while Ennis, I think is attracted to Jack right from the beginning, but he's still probably a little confused about what his emotions mean. 

Also, Jack really wants to draw attention to himself... by posing so seductively against his truck... by taking a few steps towards Ennis... by attempting to make eye-contact (it seems like that to me anyway).  While, Ennis is trying to be very sneaky about the peeks he's taking of Jack.  He's withdrawing into himself, under his hat.  He's using his body language to stop Jack from coming right up to him or from starting a conversation, etc.  Ennis's "don't talk to me" vibe here must have been *really* strong given what we all know (in hindsight) about how chatty and friendly Jack is.

On one level I think this opening scene is a study in two very different forms of flirting.

[brokeplex]

Hi Artiste,
I definitely agree that there's something significant going on between Ennis and Jack right from the very beginning. 

On one level I think this opening scene is a study in two very different forms of flirting.

I think that you may be misreading Ennis's body language. Yes, I agree that Jack has Ennis on his tracker. But, Ennis flirting with Jack. No!  Ennis just wants to get on with his summer job. Later, after he got to know Jack he was more inclined to accept Jack's attentions.

[BelAir]

to answer the posted question...

based on my first viewing experience, I think I knew it when Ennis got pissed about having to go down the mountain early, and when Jack lasso'd him...  and then I knew it for sure when Ennis was puking in the alley way...

(just to clarify, what I posted above is when it became to obvious to me that they were in love, when I was watching the movie for the first time... not when it actually started to happen for them. make sense?)

[Brown Eyes]

I think that you may be misreading Ennis's body language. Yes, I agree that Jack has Ennis on his tracker. But, Ennis flirting with Jack. No!  Ennis just wants to get on with his summer job. Later, after he got to know Jack he was more inclined to accept Jack's attentions.

Well, yes, you're right that Ennis isn't really flirting with Jack... he's sort of doing the opposite.  I was trying to be a little bit fun in using the word flirt.  But, he is expressing interest in Jack.  So, maybe I should have said... two different ways that attraction is manifested. 

I really do think that in the glances he throws to Jack, Ennis is very interested in him.  And, I think that Ennis's defensive body language has a lot to do with his fear that Jack (or anyone else) would notice that he's checking Jack out.

This happens again a few times early on (prior to TS1).  When Jack and Ennis are at the jump off before heading up the mountain, Ennis seems to again "check out" Jack on horseback and then quickly look around or change his expression as if worried that someone would see him.  And again, once they're up on Brokeback during the "horse spinning" scene Ennis becomes more bold at looking at Jack... leaning back to get a better view, etc.  But, again, he curtails his behavior in apparent worry, eve when he knows he's alone.

But, back to the very opening interaction... in a general way, I think this is a visual study of a kind of very subtle attraction that's well outside the norm of Hollywood cinema.

 

to answer the posted question...

based on my first viewing experience, I think I knew it when Ennis got pissed about having to go down the mountain early, and when Jack lasso'd him...  and then I knew it for sure when Ennis was puking in the alley way...

(just to clarify, what I posted above is when it became to obvious to me that they were in love, when I was watching the movie for the first time... not when it actually started to happen for them. make sense?)

The scene where it's clear to me that they are in love (and mutually in love) is TS2.

[BelAir]

The scene where it's clear to me that they are in love (and mutually in love) is TS2.

I think you're probably right, that they were in love in the second tent scene, but when I first saw the movie, I  hadn't picked up on it yet...

[Brown Eyes]

I think you're probably right, that they were in love in the second tent scene, but when I first saw the movie, I  hadn't picked up on it yet...

Well, I think that's one of the wonderful things about BBM... that so many of us react to scenes differently. 

For me, the combination of Ennis consciously making the decision to get up, leave the fire and go to Jack... with the gentleness and the deliberateness of everything that goes on in the tent following the drama of the day, made it pretty clear to me that they were in love.  That it wasn't just about sex.  If the encounter had been similar to TS1 again the second time... it would have been harder to read this second scene as "love."  The contrasts between TS1 and TS2 are just amazing.

I think the happy tussle that immediately follows TS2 also helped me see the whole nature of their relationship as having shifted into "love."

But, I can completely understand why for some viewers an understanding of their relationship would be different or could hinge on different scenes entirely.

[brokeplex]

OK, I agree that for Ennis by the time of TS2 his interactions with Jack are something much more than "a one shot thing". But, I believe that Ennis would with all honesty deny that it is "love" both to himself and to others. So, is it really love? Does denial change the feeling?

In many ways I don't think that Ennis consciously "loved" Jack until a scene late in the movie in the closet in OMT's house. He holds the shirts up to his face and quietly mouths the words: "I love you". Maybe that was a moment of epiphany for Ennis caused by the shock of Jack's death and the surprise at finding the shirts.

[Artiste]

Thanks atz75, thanks brokeplex, and thanks BelAir!!!

Boy you sure amaze me with your details. Am so very pleased!
May I re-say: May I in return pose you that question of yours, yes to you, and to all here: What you consider LOVE?? !!

P.S., To me, in the movie, both Jack and Ennis feel for each other right away when they both arrive at the trailer for their job that Aquirre will give then. But is it both, one or the two? Is is love or infatuation? Or curiosity? Or what?


............................................
May I add that right away, these glancing scenes makes the movie a love story!! ??

But is that love?? Or just sex?? Or is attraction part of love?? Is flirting love here too?? Etc.?
Compelling is all of that in the beggining of the movie to me with the two: Jack as well as Ennis!! Is that so too in the book??

Talking about curiosity, I think that that is most important too!! Both men at their first meeting for a job with Aquirre, are curious about the other!! We must not forget that their is an eye by both, as they look at each other!! That to me, makes it a pro-gay WAY (or is it an pro-straight way mostly??) beggining in the movie (and that will be talked about further later). Like you say atz, it is not only Jack that looks, since the actions and interactions by Ennis is also most important as it is maybe flirting on his part too?? !! Would you have changed that atz or added to it to make it even better??

Brokeplex, Ennis might deny love in some ways, but in other ways, he does not seem to do so. Right away at the first sight of Jack loooooking at him, makes him wake up to adventure??

These two actors must have talked about this?? Or was it somebody elses's idea, for these important looks which are vivid by both actors??

So happy to read your news,

hugs! hugs! hugs!

 

[Nikita111]

Wow, Nikita, that's a fabulous picture of young Heath in your sig.  How about getting thee over to the "Heath Heath Heath" thread and sharing it?  Here's the link:  http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1179.0.html .

By the way, welcome to BetterMost! 

 Hi Meryl. 

I posted one gorgeous photoshoot to Heath, Heath, Heath and I will upload this one as well.

Enjoy the gorgeousness of his Aussie devine self.

 

[Nikita111]

Hi Artiste,
I definitely agree that there's something significant going on between Ennis and Jack right from the very beginning.  Since it's silent, it's nearly impossible to assign the opening (wonderful) scene one meaning.  I think essentially, they're each checking the other out.  And, I think Jack is more conscious of the nature of his interest in Ennis... while Ennis, I think is attracted to Jack right from the beginning, but he's still probably a little confused about what his emotions mean. 

Also, Jack really wants to draw attention to himself... by posing so seductively against his truck... by taking a few steps towards Ennis... by attempting to make eye-contact (it seems like that to me anyway).  While, Ennis is trying to be very sneaky about the peeks he's taking of Jack.  He's withdrawing into himself, under his hat.  He's using his body language to stop Jack from coming right up to him or from starting a conversation, etc.  Ennis's "don't talk to me" vibe here must have been *really* strong given what we all know (in hindsight) about how chatty and friendly Jack is.

On one level I think this opening scene is a study in two very different forms of flirting.

 Interesting I thought Ennis wasn't feeling it that way at the first scene but he began to feel something after days on Brokeback.