Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[magicmountain]

Looks like English naval hero Lord Horatio Nelson was not only a heterosexual version of Ennis in terms of heroic loyalty to his lover but, judging by the following quotes from his letters to his mistress Emma Hamilton, he would have been a dab hand at writing slash!

In recently published letters contained in a new biography of Hamilton, he wrote to her that he had woken 20 times in the night thinking of her and that in one of his dreams he was sitting between two women.

“They both tried to seduce me and the first wanted to take those liberties with me that no Woman in the World but yourself ever did, the consequence was I knocked her down and in the moment of bustle you came in and taking me in your embrace whispered I love nothing but you my Nelson and we enjoyed the height of love.”

In another letter he wrote he could be “trusted with 50 virgins in a dark room”.

“What must be my sensations at the idea of sleeping with you! It sets me on fire, even the thoughts, much more would the reality. I am sure my love and desires are all to you, and if any woman naked were to come to me, even as I am at this moment from thinking of you, I hope it might rot off if I would touch her even with my hand.”

[MaineWriter]

And now for something completely different:

The other night I had this dream that in the middle of a Ritz cracker ad, the spokesperson, overcome with emotion said, "I need to read Louise's story!" When I woke up, I remembered the slogan, "Everything is better that sits on a Ritz!" I asked Lucise for some fanart and she came through in an admirable manner....okay, they are sitting on saltines, but folks are we quibbling here?

This is for you, Louise, my crazy dream...

[magicmountain]

      This, I think, is the hidden value of works of art like BBM and the fanfic spin offs...  That some of this art...communicates past the mind to the spirit of people in the culture and they 'hear' that value whether they have language for it or not...   

The following description of the teaching story (which may include traditional folk tales/fairy stories) by psychologist Robert Ornstein (in The Psychology of Consciousness) is illuminating.

"The teaching story was brought to perfection  as a communication instrument many thousands of years ago. It is part of the most priceless heritage of mankind. ... Unlike the parable, the meanng of the teaching story cannot be unravelled by intellectual methods alone. Its action is direct and certain upon the innermost part of the human being, an action incapable of manifestion by means of the emotional or intellectual apparatus.

"The closest we can come to describing its effect is to say that it connects with a part of the individual which cannot be reached by any other convention. It establishes a means of communication with a non-verbalised truth beyond the customary limitations of our familiar dimensions."

I can only surmise that a template is embedded in the symbolism and structure of the BBM story which is recognised by our subconscious mind. This template represents some primal "truth" about the human state and maybe even something beyond that. That's why people have reacted so strongly to this tale.

[neatfreak]

Hey, everyone,

I have enjoyed so much the insights from so many new readers. What wonderful reading!

Real life has rudely intruded into my time lately. My laptop started smoking from the keyboard last week, so I've had to make do with sharing the desktop with my son – much to his disgust. And there's a new issue with Apple's latest system upgrade creating major problems with third-party software. At least two of our three computers are affected. *Groan* If you own a Mac, DON'T download the latest upgrade!

Meanwhile, I found the last locations update in my profile. So here's what I've got so far.

New readers, let me know via PM or post if you want to be added to this list. You may offer only whatever details you wish. Time changes in three weeks!

Locations update, in alphabetical order:

Belbbmfan:  Leuven, Belgium (CET=EDT+6)
Bigheart:  Bergschenhoek, Holland (CET=EDT+6)
CarolK1943:  Somewhere, Michigan (EDT)
DavidinHartford/David:  Hartford (duh), Connecticut (EDT)
DeeDee:  Baltimore, Maryland (EDT)
gn411:  St. Petersburg, Florida (EDT)
Helen/Helen:  Somewhere, UK (UKT=EDT+5)
JennyC:  San Francisco, California (PDT=EDT-3)
Laurel:  Rocky Hill, Connecticut (EDT)
Louisev/Louise: Saarbrücken, Germany (CET=EDT+6)
LoveEmBoys:  Somewhere, Colorado (MDT=EDT-2)
Lucise:  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (MDT=EDT-2)
Lynne:  Tennessee, USA (CDT)
Madlori/Lori:  Columbus, Ohio (EDT)
Magicmountain/Jo:  Sydney, Australia (AEDT=EDT+11)
Mainewriter/Leslie:  Portland, Maine (EDT)
Moremojo/Scott:  Austin, Texas (CDT=EDT-1)
Navyvet:  Somewhere, Florida (EDT)
Neatfreak/Betty:  Indianapolis, Indiana (EDT)
notBastet:  Somewhere, North Carolina (EDT)
Opinionista/Natali: Madrid, Spain (CET=EDT+6)
Pastorfred/Fred:  Moscow, Idaho (PDT=EDT-3)
Quiplash:  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (CDT=EDT-1)
Ranchgal: Northern Plains of South Dakota (CDT=EDT-1)
Scudder:  Tucson, Arizona (MST=EDT-3, for now)
Tamarack: Vienna, Maine (EDT)
Yb:  Hongkong, China (Name of zone?=EDT+9)

neatfreak/Betty

[Lumière]

, "Everything is better that sits on a Ritz!" I asked Lucise for some fanart and she came through in an admirable manner....okay, they are sitting on saltines, but folks are we quibbling here?

Saltines, you say? 

[magicmountain]

Good question. I guess, as I say, these things are registered in the subconscious so I can only respond in a sketchy sort of way. This is my take. On a symbolic level the mountain represents sacred space – another dimension maybe or a state of consciousness. Jack is an emissary or angel from this place – he is a life-giving source of love and affirmation. Ennis is Everyman who goes up the "mountain", has a transcendental experience – an encounter with an angel - in which he experiences wholeness. It scares him because he fears the loss of himself (ego death) and that union with the angel will require sacrifice and mark him out as different. He flees from this experience, but receives constant reminders (Jack’s postcards). He allows the angelic influence into his presence only rarely until its power withers and dies, finally reaching him only in dreams.

PS Since this exchange is getting a bit OT in relation to Ennis and Ellery perhaps, if you wish, we should carry on this exchange via PMs.

[magicmountain]

Have just watched an Australian interview with Hugh Jackman on TV. It was fascinating to see. He is wide-eyed, soft voiced, boyishly enthusiastic, animated and natural. A lovely man. No wonder Ennis is nuts about him!

[louisev]

awwww, so jealous!  Wide-eyed and soft voiced huh?

Doesn't sound like our Ellery to me!!!

[christie wood]

I started this thread on June 24. It seems like a lifetime ago! LOL. Now, 3 months, 475 pages, 4750 posts, and 5 finished books later (I started this thread when the third book was in its early chapters), here we are...Ennis and Ellery are truly committed to each other, we've been through murder, kidnapping, injury, the vacation from hell (which had a happy ending), lots of angst, plus day to day life, love, work, and friends. We have had a culinary exploration that has ranged from beans and franks cooked in the radarrange (yes, I stumbled across that in a very early chapter just yesterday) to ....sardine sandwiches. 'Nuff said about that!

Out in the real world there have been new readers coming on board daily and joining us here at Bettermost to discuss the story. Just as Brokeback created communities that no one expected, so has this story. I had the privilege to meet Louise in London in August and believe I have made a very special friend.

I am looking forward to the sixth book but feeling a little nostalgic with the ending of the fifth. I actually feel like it is a perfect ending...I can picture them there, in honeymoon cottage, the autumn sun coming through the window (which it is doing here in Maine).

I thought of sending our author some flowers as a thank you, but decided that maybe this was more appropriate....



Thanks, Louise.

Leslie

Morning Everyone!  I'm a bit late to reply to this, I know, but I thought it was such a lovely post.  I wish I'd discovered LS a lot sooner than I did, but there's nothing to be done about that.  The fact is I did discover it, and its been such a joy catching up on all 5 books, and to enjoy reading the first chapter of book 6 along with everyone else here.

I thought your description of where Ennis and Ellery are now in their relationship was beautiful, and I know how you feel about the end of book 5, but it was a beautifully apt ending. 

I loved the picture you posted too Leslie - really beautiful and totally captured Louise's description of the autumn sun coming through the window as Ennis and Ellery declared their dedication and love for each other. 

Wow, I'm feeling very overcome with emotion and its still early! 

[opinionista]

Good question. I guess, as I say, these things are registered in the subconscious so I can only respond in a sketchy sort of way. This is my take. On a symbolic level the mountain represents sacred space – another dimension maybe or a state of consciousness. Jack is an emissary or angel from this place – he is a life-giving source of love and affirmation. Ennis is Everyman who goes up the "mountain", has a transcendental experience – an encounter with an angel - in which he experiences wholeness. It scares him because he fears the loss of himself (ego death) and that union with the angel will require sacrifice and mark him out as different. He flees from this experience, but receives constant reminders (Jack’s postcards). He allows the angelic influence into his presence only rarely until its power withers and dies, finally reaching him only in dreams.

PS Since this exchange is getting a bit OT in relation to Ennis and Ellery perhaps, if you wish, we should carry on this exchange via PMs.

Instead of continuing the converstation via PM, why don't you open a thread over at the Open Forum so others (including me) can be part of the discussion? It's an interesting topic!