If you were Alma............

[Jeff Wrangler]

The way I read it, she knows what is going on.

And here's another thing: I was just thinking (in that ridiculous way I have of devoting all my daily thoughts to what characters in BBM should or shouldn't have done, as opposed to devoting them to my own work) that however much Alma was wronged over the years, her confrontation on Thanksgiving is unspeakably rude. She waits all those years when it would have made sense to mention something -- and then finally does so gratuitously, on a holiday, with their daughters in the other room. Is it because Ennis seems so much more manly than Monroe and that makes her uncomfortable? Is it because she feels financially secure enough at that point to express her bitterness openly?

I agree, it is rude.

I remember a discussion on the Thanksgiving confrontation back at IMDb. I remember thinking and writing at the time that perhaps the fact that the girls still so plainly idolize their father, after all he's put their mother through (not that the girls know that), finally goads Alma to the breaking point. But that doesn't necessarily speak to the question of why she confronts him at that Thanksgiving dinner.

But let me ask the ladies a question, and no disrespect intended but some of you will have had an experience that I'll never have: Could or does the fact that Alma is pregnant--and pregnant with Monroe's child--at the time have anything to do with the timing of her confronting Ennis?

[cricket99999]

Being pregnant, she may be feeling more tired and exasperated than usual.  Emotionally, she may be feeling some sense of power from her pregnancy in the sense that she is set from now on, ie no longer working-class.  But I don't think her pregnancy is a major reason for the outburst.

I remember thinking and writing at the time that perhaps the fact that the girls still so plainly idolize their father, after all he's put their mother through (not that the girls know that), finally goads Alma to the breaking point. But that doesn't necessarily speak to the question of why she confronts him at that Thanksgiving dinner.

I think it's at that Thanksgiving dinner because that's the one where he's in spitting distance of her, and she's never had the chance to air her grievances.  Doubt she planned on doing so, but then (as you mentioned) the girls fawned over Ennis and later Ennis made his "once burned" comment, and she lost it. 

[delalluvia]

But let me ask the ladies a question, and no disrespect intended but some of you will have had an experience that I'll never have: Could or does the fact that Alma is pregnant--and pregnant with Monroe's child--at the time have anything to do with the timing of her confronting Ennis?

This was brought up on an IMDb post, Jeff, and I was in agreement that the combnation of being pregnant, raging hormones, the clear idolization of the girls, the discomfort of a not-so-happy family and Ennis finally putting the blame on her for the divorce "Once burned..." finally just made her crack.

Perhaps, had she not been so encumbered by child and hormones, she might have kept the lid on as she had all this time.

Kat and others,

the reason I mention Story Alma as possibly not knowing what is going on during the reunion scene, is because when you read later why she divorced Ennis, while his 'embrace' and the 'fishing trips' are on the list, there are many other things wrong with her marriage to Ennis.  IMO it seems that the reason she objects to the 'fishing trips' with Jack is because Ennis doesn't take HER and the girls anywhere.  It's as if he took them to Disneyland or a dance once in while, that would've been OK with her, tit for tat.  It's like Story Alma puts Ennis' affair with Jack lower down the list of things wrong.

[serious crayons]

Yeah, I forgot about the "once burned" crack. That could have annoyed her. Although "once burned" could also mean something less insulting, such as, "I've already tried marriage once and was hurt when it didn't work out." Which, judging from his expression at the divorce procedings, is true.

Jeff, good point about her being annoyed at the girls still idolizing their father. Alma looks pretty peevish after the rodeo story. But I don't think the pregnancy would make much difference.

Del, I think even Movie Alma had other reasons for divorcing Ennis that may have been higher on the list than his affair, or at least close behind it. The main one: money. (And, of course, the two are connected.)

[cricket99999]

Although "once burned" could also mean something less insulting, such as, "I've already tried marriage once and was hurt when it didn't work out."

I think that IS what the statement meant to Ennis, and that it was not an insult. But I think Alma misinterpreted it as such, which would be easy enough to do. 

[Jeff Wrangler]

I think that IS what the statement meant to Ennis, and that it was not an insult. But I think Alma misinterpreted it as such, which would be easy enough to do. 

What Ennis meant may not be as important as what Alma thought he meant. Still, though, I'm glad the "once burned" remark was brought up. I'd forgotten about it--and regardless of what Ennis meant, personally I think that was a pretty rude thing for him to say to Alma. She was his hostess, even if she was the woman who "burned" him.

[MaineWriter]

What Ennis meant may not be as important as what Alma thought he meant. Still, though, I'm glad the "once burned" remark was brought up. I'd forgotten about it--and regardless of what Ennis meant, personally I think that was a pretty rude thing for him to say to Alma. She was his hostess, even if she was the woman who "burned" him.

I don't think it's rude, in context. She started it, "After all these years, Ennis, you ain't found anybody else t'marry..."

and he says, "Once burned..."

You have to remember, they were married for 12 years and did have conversations...many of which probably devolved into arguments, esp. at the end. I think we were witnessing yet another dysfunctional conversation pattern, which can be very hard to break.

The other thing--holidays tend to bring out the worst in people--we saw that here.

L

[Jeff Wrangler]

Nope, I gotta part company with you on this one, Leslie. Regardless of whether Alma started it, he's casting it in her face that she's the one who burned him. And that's rude. There might have been more polite ways to respond to her--a simple "No" would have done very nicely--but then, they wouldn't have served the plot.

"Jesus H.!" I can't believe I'm defending Alma against Ennis! 

You're absolutely right, though, about holidays bringing out the worst in people. I'm afraid there are an awful lot of families--especially families with gay and lesbian children--who can testify to that.

[MaineWriter]

Nope, I gotta part company with you on this one, Leslie. Regardless of whether Alma started it, he's casting it in her face that she's the one who burned him. And that's rude. There might have been more polite ways to respond to her--a simple "No" would have done very nicely--but then, they wouldn't have served the plot.

"Jesus H.!" I can't believe I'm defending Alma against Ennis! 

You're absolutely right, though, about holidays bringing out the worst in people. I'm afraid there are an awful lot of families--especially families with gay and lesbian children--who can testify to that.

Sorry, love bunny...ain't gonna let ya get away with this one...

I believe you said in another post that you were "an effete homosexual northeastern snob" -- I'll match you--I am an overeducated, insufferably liberal northeastern snob (or whatever I am)...point being, we have learned something about conversation, verbal sparring and all that.

Alma and Ennis did not have that frame of reference to work from. Their conversations were raw and uninformed. Her comment about not finding someone else to marry was, in our eyes, rude. His response, in our eyes, was rude. In the language of their day to day conversations. it was probably a natural discourse and a large part of the reason they got divorced. They could not communicate effectively. We are seeing just another example of that.

The conversation started as so many of their conversations probably did start. Look at Ennis's posture...it is a place he has been before. It escalated quickly...and unexpectedly...to a place he did not expect. For Alma? I am not sure, need to think on that one.

But I am not casting either one of them in the "being rude" role.

L

[serious crayons]

Here's the opinion of a Midwestern snob: it was kind of rude. But more cheeky than cutting. Her response was REALLY rude -- deliberately cutting. Especially since he was her guest. And was even helping clear the table! I think she was getting back at him for her years of unhappiness.